Stop People-Pleasing, Start Living: Gabby Reece on Strength, Aging, and Raising Resilient Kids

Dr. Brighten: [00:00:00] You can't be a victim of your story. Everybody has a story. The things don't work out in our adult life or the things that are difficult. I'm in charge of that, and the only way I can do that in a balanced way with some perspective is to be healthy. You put yourself and your health on the top tier. A lot of moms get the message from society, that family first, yourself second.

Why do you feel like that might actually lead to women struggling more? 

Narrator 1: Gabrielle Reece 

Narrator 2: is an unstoppable force, volleyball legend, New York Times bestselling author, and one of the most influential women in sports. As Nike's first female spokesperson and shoe designer, 

Narrator 1: Gabby broke barriers and redefined what it means to be strong, athletic and unapologetically feminine.

Narrator 2: Today she's a powerhouse in the wellness world. Co-founder of Laird's Superfood and XPT, creator of High X and host of the Gabby Reece Show, where she brings powerful conversations with top experts in health, psychology, and performance. To millions, whether it's on the [00:01:00] court, in the gym, or behind the mic.

Gabby's mission is simple 

Narrator 1: to help you unlock your highest potential and live with purpose, power, and vitality. 

Dr. Brighten: When people talk about surrendering in their children or faith, it's knowing that there is a plan for their life and how can you help them find it to be their best selves and know that that process, one of the elements of it, it is uncomfortable.

What do you think parents can do, and if you have any advice in terms of raising someone independently, but also like now, wherever they're at now, but hopefully before they're teenagers, to build that trust? We do have some of the answers and it, it's not about, welcome back to the Dr. Brighten Show. I'm your host, Dr.

Jolene Brighten. I'm board certified in naturopathic endocrinology, a nutrition scientist, a certified sex counselor, and a certified menopause specialist. As always, I'm bringing you the latest, most UpToDate information to help you take charge of your health and [00:02:00] take back your hormones. If you enjoy this kind of information, I invite you to visit my website, dr Brighten.com, where I have a ton of free resources for you, including a newsletter that brings you some of the best information, including a.

Updates on this podcast now. As always, this information is brought to you cost free, and because of that I have to say thank you to my sponsors for making this possible. It's my aim to make sure that you can have all the tools and resources in your hands and that we end the gatekeeping. And in order to do that, I do have to get support for this podcast.

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You have lived boldly from sports to raising a family. What do people get wrong [00:03:00] about what it looks like to be a strong, fulfilled woman? I think there's a lot of layers. I. S to that, to that answer, because I think, you know, we, we read these books when we're little about, you know, sort of, or at least I was, you know, someone's gonna, you're, you're gonna get rescued and, um, you know, this notion of having it all.

Mm-hmm. And I think what I learned was you can have versions of it all, um, but you can't have it all, all at the same time. Mm-hmm. I think it sort of ebbs and flows. Uh, so for example, my youngest daughter is gonna be graduating high school this year, so I'm putting my foot a little more on, on my work life was sort of more akin to what it was like earlier in my career.

Mm-hmm. And I think it's also kind of tuning in enough to who you are as a person, as a woman, to really understand what it is you actually want. Mm-hmm. Because you think, oh, if I wanna be a professional, then I can just do this. Um, or I'm going to. [00:04:00] Uh, you know, I love when people go, oh, are you just a mom?

It's like, okay, well that's the hardest thing in the world to do. Absolutely. And in ways harder than certainly a CEO. Yeah. Differently. So I think it's, it's also encouraging young people, women to say, well, wait a second. I'm gonna tune the worlds noise out, and what is it? Do I do I think that's gonna make me actually feel fulfilled?

Mm-hmm. And so I think the, the bill of goods that we sell that's a little tricky is, uh, you can have it all and quote, it's not fair if you don't. 'cause that's not realistic. There's biological responsibility if you're gonna have a kid. Yeah. And, um, and just navigating that with your own instincts versus the constant bombardment from the world.

Mm-hmm. What does it look like having it all to you? It took me a long time to understand my all, even though I always followed my heart and my instincts. So I landed there. I, I think being driven and setting goals [00:05:00] and being self-sufficient in all of these sort of independent notions was very important for me when I was young.

But what I didn't realize is that I was actually striving for meaningful relationship in a family and that all the other goal setting was weirdly second tier. Interesting. Even though I wanted that to be look first tier. Mm-hmm. If that makes sense. So my energy and my efforts, a lot of that great percentage is me, my health first, then my family and then weigh down is this kind of in pursuit of excellence and I didn't realize, I thought I was an in pursuit of excellence person.

Mm-hmm. That was trying to fit my family in. But really if I look at my last. 25 years, it's been in pursuit of a strong family life. Mm-hmm. And then having this excellence in my work life. [00:06:00] Kind of as this side story, you put yourself and your health on the top tier. Mm-hmm. A lot of moms get the message from society.

Yeah. That family first, yourself second. Why do you feel like that might actually lead to women struggling more? I think something really important, and I try to instill this in my daughters, is you can't be a victim of your story. Mm-hmm. Everybody has a story. The things that were unfair to us when we're younger, the things don't work out in our adult life or the things that are difficult.

And so I really am committed to this idea of, well, I'm in, I'm in charge of that. Mm-hmm. And the only way I can do that in a balanced way with some perspective is to be healthy. And so there, that is the most ruthless part of my personality because I'm aware that if I'm going to be there for everybody and do all these things for everyone [00:07:00] and try to be of service to my family and even to my work, I really have to be ruthless about taking care of myself because that responsibility's on me.

Mm-hmm. And they don't teach you that because somehow, especially men do it more fluidly. And I admire that, which is. Oh, this, this is gonna be good for me, which in the end will be good for everybody. Mm-hmm. And with women, it's like, well, that's not nice. Or, um, you know, the, the notion of you can't be direct, harsh, savage, and a good person all at the same time.

Mm-hmm. And so I think for women, we have to kind of round out that message of I'm as, I'm pretty brutal and I am of the most service I can be, not only to my family, but to my community. Yeah. Because of that. So I can actually have, I can, I can be more loving, my capacity is greater and if something is not the way that I like it, it is on me to make it different.

Mm. [00:08:00] I love how you have these words of savage and brutal juxtaposed to these loving, very feminine terms that it manifests in. And you don't often hear that, right? Like, I feel like there's really this separation of here's the masculine way to be and you can't access that unless you know, unless you are a man, or if you do, you're somehow sacrificing the feminine.

Mm-hmm. What would you say to that? I think I. The notion of masculine and feminine. Yes, it's assigned to gender, and I do think there's tendencies. We live in a time where everyone's trying to hodgepodge that together. And I think that also is a disservice because there's things naturally that I'm inclined to probably because of my biology mm-hmm.

That I, I almost had to develop more masculine energy, and certainly sport helped that. Yeah. But it's realizing what energy is appropriate for which environment and which time. [00:09:00] And then to lean into that so that, um, I'm coming like, so I wouldn't bring, let's say, some of my feminine energy to a pretty hard work situation.

Yeah. Or an uncomfortable conversation, um, as a boss or, you know, if you're coaching someone. Mm-hmm. So it's really looking at the energies and saying, okay, which of these energies is gonna support me the most effectively in this moment? Mm-hmm. So context, context matters in the situation with the energy you bring.

And I like, I like that. I like that you are able to look at where are my strengths to pull from and in what context should I leverage those? You've been open about what it looks like to be a strong woman in a long-term relationship, and that has stirred up some controversy at times. Mm-hmm. So for women who are leading in their careers and in their homes, what does it actually look like to show up powerfully in your partnership without dimming or [00:10:00] losing your light?

It's hard. Mm-hmm. Hard to be, to have parallel paths, right? Like to be at someone's mom and be there to listen and to do, and then to be a partner. And, and in my particular relationship, I'm married to a very masculine but of service partner. Mm-hmm. And that's what I wanted. And then also to put gas in my own fire.

Mm-hmm. And so what I will say is, like, anything that you're trying to do and do is to the best of your ability with the knowledge and experience that you have at that time is, it's not easy. But if it's what you want, what is your strategy? What is your plan? How is that gonna work out to the best of your ability?

So to your point about controversy, I think a lot of times people will say, they'll just throw something at it like, well, it's, it isn't fair. Well, no it isn't. Mm-hmm. And you know, when I [00:11:00] grew up, people would say, well, if you want fair, go to the fairground. And so for me, I'm always looking for the solutions.

Mm-hmm. I don't care if it's not fair. Yeah. I'm looking for how do I have harmony and peace and love with my partner who, who appears to be doing the same thing mm-hmm. To the best of his ability. Um, versus well, he should be concerned or think about things the way I do. Well, guess what? His brain doesn't work that way.

Mm-hmm. But he has other strengths that I, you, that I learn how to work with and compliment. So then as a partnership and as a family, we're sort of drawing on each other's strengths. So I, I think it goes back to this notion of accountability. Mm-hmm. And also, what do I want? And so am I willing to do extra to, to be in the dynamics, to be in the relationships, to be working at the things I wanna be working at, to be the type of mom that I, that I want.

And so I think athletics, again, teaches you to not be afraid of what you're not good at. [00:12:00] Mm-hmm. To be willing to strip that down and, and look at that, to work at that, because then that makes the whole of you better. And I think we live in a time where we, where we sort of are forgetting, we're omitting that.

Even the great stuff, even, even the stuff that's happening easily actually still takes work. Mm-hmm. And I'm not afraid of that. I'm, and also I think it's this, I feel comfortable enough in my own real strength that to be of service does not scare me. Mm-hmm. And I think the notion of the ultimate for me, and what I certainly have learned philosophically, is that love and kindness is the hardest thing you can do and may be the most important.

And so if I'm really interested in being strong, the real idea of strength. Mm-hmm. I will not be afraid of that. Mm-hmm. Do you feel like there [00:13:00] was something that happened to your, in your life that helped you, like, arrive at this epiphany? Or is it just something that, like over time repeated exposure to events over and over, you noticing the patterns that really made you decide like it's true strength is what it takes and, and really leaning into all of this?

Yeah, I, I definitely think it was learned over time, but it showed up pretty early because something that always felt really important to me was to be strong and independent. Mm-hmm. So within even my family dynamic and my partnership, I'm still me. And so how was I going to accomplish that? And then reading these patterns and also looking at the people that I admired mm-hmm.

And respected and who were showing up. It's like having a, I had a coach in college that I'm still very dear friends with, that she organized tough prepared. And always looking out for us first as people, not as athletes. Mm-hmm. And so I had models [00:14:00] around me of people who were displaying this, and these were things I was drawn to.

Mm-hmm. Do you feel like there's a piece of advice, like maybe a habit or mindset that you would share with women who are like, I want to find that kind of balance in my relationship where I still feel like I'm myself, I still feel like I am, I have my own strength. I can have my career, but I'm still showing up in this partnership.

Well, it's first making sure you want the partnership. Mm. Don't just be in a partnership because they tell us like, oh, then you get to this age and you should probably find somebody if you're gonna have kids and do all this stuff. And it's also finding the right partner. You know, I, I, I certainly would've been fine.

I never thought, I mean, I met my husband at 25. Let me tell you, the last thing I was thinking about was, oh, I wanna find a husband. Yeah. I was not thinking about that. I was like wanting to, you know, kick ass and take numbers and accomplish and do. Mm-hmm. But I came across somebody that I instinctively felt like, [00:15:00] oh, this person has the traits and they're unique, so you don't just kind of throw it away.

Yeah. Um, and so I think it's, it's also understanding yourself and what you really want. Like, I didn't want someone to pay my bills. I wanted somebody who could handle the things that I don't naturally handle as well. Mm-hmm. And somebody who would be exciting to me, but also devoted. And that's very, I found that that was very hard to find.

I used to joke, 'cause I hung around a lot of male professional athletes. I'm like, I wish I could find someone that I was excited by and drawn to and attracted to in the ways that I was to them, but somebody who would dedicate themselves to me. Mm-hmm. And usually you think that that's an either or, like, oh, it's a, it's a beta.

Who's gonna just be a welcome mat? And just, you know, so I think it's, it's, it's understanding yourself enough, [00:16:00] enough to go, well, what is it that I actually think that I want truly? And, and, and, and sort of those top five things that feel important. And then learning how to dance with the rest of when you're in a relationship.

Mm-hmm. So 25, that's a long time to be with someone. It's almost 30 years. Yeah. Yeah. How, I'm sure people are listening to this right now wondering. 30 years. How do you keep up the connection, the intimacy, feeling like, especially as you navigate being a parent, because that changes your dynamic as well time.

How do you keep that connection going? Well, I wanna start off by saying Laird and I probably almost got divorced twice. Mm-hmm. So I don't wanna be like, it's been 30 years of smooth sailing. You're growing up together. Neither one of us came from homes with, with examples. Yeah. So you're learning the language as you fly on the fly.

Um, you know, [00:17:00] we all want these things and we're looking to the outside to give it to us or our partner. And what I have learned is I need to be those things. Hmm. So I try to be those things and bring that into my relationship and I'm trusting that Laird is doing that himself. I'm not his mother. Mm-hmm.

I'm not his, I'm not even, I don't even wanna be like, you know, some couples like you get brotherly sisterly and we even talk, you know, people say, I married my best friend. Maybe in certain ways I did. But actually for me personally, I really wanted to be in a romantic relationship. Mm-hmm. Uh, that's what I was looking for, that contrast.

Because it was the only place that I felt like because I am so masculine in my everyday life, that I actually was looking for someone that I could express the feminine. Mm-hmm. So it's one kind of be the thing that you think you want. Um, and I will say this, I have a husband that is completely of service to myself and to our daughters [00:18:00] beyond.

But I always tell my youngest daughter, because she's really tough on her dad, I go, you have to realize your dad would tell me to f off if my behavior was not up to par. Mm-hmm. For a long, long, long period of time. Don't confuse the loving, the kindness, the bend, you know, bending over backwards. Yeah. For somebody who wouldn't say, I'm not gonna deal with this.

Mm-hmm. So there's also like this constant, we joke, it's mutually assured destruction, which is like in the military. Yeah. I think because we're both continuing to. Develop ourselves that he's over here going, I'm here. I'm gonna show up. I'm gonna be my best and then I'm over there. But you're, you're sort of constantly sort of keeping each other in check by that system.

Mm-hmm. Because it's like, Hey, here's the expectation. I'm not putting the expectation on you. I put it on myself, but that also means what I will and won't accept. [00:19:00] Yeah. Do you feel like there's a ritual or habit as a couple that's something that you've engaged in that's allowed you to have conversations around this?

I think it happens pretty naturally for us. 'cause there's that ruthlessness each of us have. Yeah. But I think we're both independently learning and changing and growing. I think we have always found the way, even with newborn children to, even if it's seven minutes, 12 minutes to, to feed that connective side.

Mm-hmm. And you know. When you have a new baby, as you know it, it's like sometimes the last thing you wanna do is like, have sex. Mm-hmm. Right. Or be touched. It's just like, really, just don't even look at me. Like the boobs, the whole, it's just like enough already. Everybody's all on me all the time. Mm-hmm.

And then there's another part of my brain that goes, you have this partner that is dedicating themselves to you. They probably have a need and it's pretty [00:20:00] straightforward. Mm-hmm. So figure it out. Yeah. And a lot of times people don't wanna hear that. Mm-hmm. And it doesn't mean it doesn't have any grand gestures.

I'm not walking around pumps and cute lingerie. It's like, Hey, I've got a few minutes. We got a kid on the nap, napping over here, let's sneak away. Mm-hmm. And sometimes that's all that's as good as you can hope for. And it's, it's staying attuned to remembering kind of basic needs. Mm-hmm. And I think men and women are.

Oftentimes very different. And so for example, like if when my kids were really little, if Laird treated, I always used to say, I'll do everything a wife will do for you, but can you just treat me like your girlfriend? Mm-hmm. Don't look at me like, oh, there she is again. Like just the notion of someone looking at you being like, I admire you, I cherish you, I desire you.

Mm-hmm. Really was empowering for me. Mm-hmm. And me sort of being like, I'm aware that, you know, part of the deal [00:21:00] is like we act. Yeah. And I, I, I don't know how this got to be controversial, uh, but. It, it's sort of, again, if you want something a certain way, what are you doing? Mm-hmm. What am I doing to contribute to making it that way?

Why do you think people don't wanna hear things? Like your partner may have needs, they may have physical needs and in being in a relationship, like that's, that's part of the dynamic. We've really made it like this weird taboo. And I think a lot of couples, after they've been together, especially for a period of time, they have not addressed this.

Mm-hmm. And so they don't want to hear it 'cause it is uncomfortable. And it's also like, if you have gotten far from there, which is okay, then what are the steps to working back? Yeah. And you, it's so funny, right? Like you, you, you are intimate with this person. You're naked, you have babies with them, but somehow you can't talk about sex or your needs.

Mm-hmm. And I find that so fascinating when it's like, [00:22:00] hey, let's not, let's just strip it down. Let's make it really clean and simple. Because ultimately, especially, you know, just. You know, sex in a committed relationship is, shouldn't be a dirty, weird thing. And sometimes it's uncomfortable. It's like, hey, mm-hmm.

We have different needs and and wants. So how do we meet in the middle? How do we talk about it? So I think a lot of people push on it because they buried it. Yeah. Well I think also we haven't been given tools and framework to have these kinds of conversations. I mean, certainly generations before us weren't modeling this, you know, on display in our house when we were growing up.

And then when you look at what we get the messaging in media, it's like things just click and they just work. And nobody, you know, we think about movies, it's like, oh, suddenly the clothes are off and everyone's orgasming. And it's like no one ever had a conversation about what they like, what they're into.

Where was the condom? Like it, there's just so much lost in translation. I think [00:23:00] people don't know how to navigate these conversations. No, and it's. It's very intimate. Mm-hmm. To really say I have a need and a want. It's a vulnerability that is scary. And I, again, I always go back. That's why I think I like my physical practice because there are parts of me, because I'm very cerebral mm-hmm.

Weirdly, that, um, you know, can sort of say through my physical practice, through biology, through understanding that it's like, oh no, this is part, this is an extension of that biology. Mm-hmm. And mine might be different than Laird's, so let me get into it with him about what his are. And, and it's, it's just more about moving in that direction.

It doesn't mean you're hitting the bullseye every week. Yeah. Yeah. And I think. For people listening to take away from, like, it's moving in that direction. It's keeping momentum instead of trying to achieve perfection [00:24:00] every single time is a really powerful message to hear. I wanna shift the conversation a little bit about parenthood because you, you've brought up like the, the being touched out as a mom, that dynamic, but I know that you've, you've shared quite a bit online about parenting.

Um, and I feel like sometimes I'm like, I, I see your stuff and I'm like, why I'm with you. Why is this controversial? Why are people upset about it? I feel like we're not in a place where we just like have real talks about things anymore. It's like you have to think about tiptoeing around everything, and I don't feel like you do that.

At all. And you're very much about raising resilient children. So you said your job isn't to coddle your kids, but to prepare them. So in a culture that is hyper-focused on safety and control, we've got the helicopter parenting. I mean, I don't know how it was like for you as a kid, I rode my bike until the streetlights came on and then you came home.

No cell phones, no one knew where we are. And I feel like we've really [00:25:00] swung a different direction. And I'm curious, from your perspective as a parent, how do you feel like that's impacting your children and what did you do differently to kind of counteract that? And I, and I would like to also say that in certain ways I see with my youngest, who I would say is, is my most conventional child.

Mm-hmm. If that makes sense. You know, she requested to go to typical school, um, in junior high, and I see certain things in her personality that are more typical right now. Mm-hmm. I always felt like if I, if I was a good example and if, then Laird and I were a good example and we, we, we provided a safe and clean home with good food and, you know, trying to show up with, not in words about morality, but in our actions.

Mm-hmm. That, that would be our, our our sort of best shot at it. And then the other part of this would be, I'm [00:26:00] trying to raise you to live your own life. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't track my girls with their cell phone. Yeah. And I'm, I sort of go, well, if I call you and I say, well, where are you? That you'll tell me.

Mm-hmm. But the other thing with girls is I always say, don't make good liars. Yeah. If you girls are really smart. I was a teenage girl and I feel we all were. I feel like it, it, I have a twofold feelings about this. I, I, I sort of feel like I want you to make all your bigger mistakes actually when you live at my house.

Yeah. And the only way that that can happen is that you have a little bit of rope. Mm-hmm. And it's a scary proposition because I have three daughters. They make very different choices, but who's gonna look out for you better than your parents? Mm-hmm. So if I come, if you come home and you look, let's say intoxicated, we're there.

Mm-hmm. So. It's this weird combination [00:27:00] of, I, I need you to explore and understand. For example, I have a 21-year-old who lives very straight and clean. Eats super healthy, believe me, she was so radical from 13 to 15 radical. Mm-hmm. But we were there and it's all it, it's this, it's this faith proposition that they will have to discover their own values.

Mm-hmm. We think we can put our values on them. We can't. We can show them our values, we can live our values, but ultimately they're gonna be doing through a collection of experiences. Oh, this is why I don't drink or do drugs, or, this is why I choose people that treat me well. Or this is why I wanna work hard.

It's not because I told you. Yeah. And I think I have a natural defiance and so does Laird. That somewhere in there instinctively, we knew our daughters all have it. Mm-hmm. Why would they be different than us? So how do we actually almost accelerate that process? Yeah. Safely. [00:28:00] And it isn't through holding them and putting padding around them or presenting the world as a different place.

It's having a real and appropriate conversation. And, uh, it's interesting that it's a scarier proposition in the near, and I think better in the long term. Mm-hmm. I agree with you 100% on as long as they're in your house, that is the time to make your mistakes because it's a gentler repercussion than what the world will sometimes hand you.

Mm-hmm. I have always had a mindset, so I have two boys. This isn't gonna be very o uh, opposite. We're gonna have three boys from you, which, you know, they're little brains they take so long to grow up compared to girls. Uh, but I've always had that mindset that I do not want my child. When something happens to say, my mom's gonna kill me.

I want them to say, I need to call my mom. I need to call my mom because she's gonna have my back no matter how bad the mistake is. [00:29:00] I can go to her, she'll have my back, and I can be honest about it. And I don't think a lot of people think about that before they have teenagers. And that's something that, just knowing the kind of child I was watching with my siblings, I was like, we were always afraid that we didn't want my parents to find out anything.

There's many things they don't know about to this day. And I'm like, I wanna do this differently because you should be able to fail and feel supported in that failure. What do you think parents can do, and if you have any advice in terms of raising someone independently, but also like now, wherever they're at now, but hopefully before they're teenagers, to build that trust?

I think listening, I. Hmm. You can't fix their problems. It's very, it's so hard. 'cause we do have some of the answers and, you know, I've gotten better with each kid. Yeah. And, um, it's it, and it, it's not about, um, [00:30:00] everything's okay, listen, you, you, you screwed up here, you have a consequence. Yeah. So it's not about that.

But the funny thing is, typically life also kind of hands it to 'em. Mm-hmm. So it, it's listening and as they, and, and being okay with being uncomfortable. 'cause as a parent, your kids will tell you stuff. I don't wanna hear it, I really don't. Yeah. But I'd rather hear it than not hear it. Mm-hmm. And I'd rather be someone that they can come to with that because I, I am going to love them unconditionally.

Where if I send 'em off, let's say they decide to go to college, uh, the people in their dorm room. Or a boy they're dating is not gonna be capable or even of the place to really genuinely look out for them. Mm-hmm. So that it, it's kind of like training. I trained today, my, my daughter called me, she's in Turkey, and she said, uh, how was your training?

I go, it was, it was terrible. And that's what it is. [00:31:00] Yeah. I'd rather take, I always say I pay a little bit all the time with the hard mm-hmm. Than pay really big later. Mm-hmm. So give the kids some room to make mistakes because they need to, they need to live life, they need to explore, they need to experiment.

They need to understand who they are in this world, who they want to be in this world. Mm-hmm. And listen more than you talk. And as they get older, they might ask your opinion and advice. Yeah. And I've even learned as they've gotten older to go, uh, can I ask a question? Can I say something? I'll give you a really short example.

I have a daughter that was in New York a couple weeks ago. She's gonna go to NYU. So I'm like, you gotta go to New York. I lived in New York by myself at 18, and my husband does not. You know, she's kind of been sheltered in a certain way. Mm-hmm. We're married, we're together, we're, you know, we live in a good place, whatever.

So there's elements where she's just sheltered by her reality. Yeah. And I go, no, [00:32:00] she needs to go to New York. And I, I saw the Uber. They got home late. She's a senior in high school. What were you doing when you were a senior in high school? Mm-hmm. But she's not a big partier, but she's social. Got home pretty late.

I, why do I know? I saw the Uber. Okay. Then the next day I see that she's like trying to get an IV because she's getting a cold. And it's like, no, duh. Yeah. And this is, we've all been there. Right. And I just said to her, I go, uh, hey. Um, and again, she's not a big drinker. Uh, so it wasn't that, it's just out.

And I said to her, I've had, I've had the other, uh, can you, could you just draw a straight line mm-hmm. From I'm out late. I all of a sudden don't feel good. Yeah. And she's like, yeah. I go, okay, because what if, if me going on and on droning on and on, or why were you out late or blah, blah, blah. It's like, what's that in the, if my big picture strategy is for you to go out in the world and know how to care for [00:33:00] yourself mm-hmm.

For your own real reasons. How do I do that? Mm-hmm. And, uh, it's, it's uncomfortable and I lose sleep over it occasionally. Yeah. You know, three, four nights a week. Why not two o'clock you wake up and you go, oh. But I think that's part of the deal. There's a lot of sitting with your own discomfort. Is what I'm hearing in parenthood for you.

Mm-hmm. How can somebody really start to cultivate the ability to sit with that discomfort? I think about, um, you know, your child is gonna tell you things as you said, that you don't necessarily wanna hear. It's gonna make you squeamish at times, uncomfortable. How do parents settle in? I think it's faith.

Mm. And I think it's remembering, trying your best to remember where were you at at that time in your life, and did you make it out? Okay. Yeah. And so when people talk about surrendering in their children or faith, I think it's that and it's knowing that there is a plan [00:34:00] for their life. And how can you help them find it?

Mm-hmm. To be their best selves and know that that process, one of the elements of it, it is uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. And that's our lesson. See, that's the other thing. I've never grown up more in my life than I have in the last 12 years of parenting. Mm-hmm. This is my next chapter and they go, oh, they're your greatest teacher.

I remember holding babies and being like, besides being sleep deprived, what is this kid really gonna teach me? Yeah. Get some teenagers and all of a sudden you go, oh, I have choices to make here as a person. Mm-hmm. Do I continue to grow and expand? Mm. Or do I just try to dive, you know, divert back to, well, this is how we do it in this house.

It's like, is that gonna work? Mm-hmm. And so I, I think it's being committed to growth as a, as an individual person. And it's also having faith. I think children hold a mirror up to you pretty rapidly in terms of anything you [00:35:00] haven't dealt with. If you haven't been managing your stress well mm-hmm. You have a crying infant and now you're sleep deprived, that becomes very apparent very quickly.

Yeah. And I also think it holds up a pretty clear picture of what's happening in your relationship dynamic. The things that, before you had children, you're like, Ugh, I can let that go. We can just deal with it later. Mm-hmm. And you're putting it on the shelf once you have children. It's like the whole, the closet's open, everything's spilling out.

Now, did you find that to be true for you? And did you have to course correct? I think I. I will say this because we have daughters. I think Laird has deferred a lot to me, and I know he hasn't always really agreed. And so there have been times where I've had to say, I made a choice. And you let that happen because we always try to have a, a, an allied front mm-hmm.

With our girls. Mm-hmm. We always do have that. We don't do that in front of them. And that there have been times ever so quietly I've [00:36:00] whispered, I, you know, I take ownership if this wasn't the right strategy. Yeah. So I think it's pulling the weeds as they come up and, and when one parent feels like they have an idea about something, and again, because we have daughters, he has deferred a lot to me because you understand the brain of a teenage girl.

Mm-hmm. I try to tell my girls, I'm like, your dad was never a teenage girl. Yeah. Um, but definitely it, it, it reminds you that you have to be fortified. You as a couple have to be fortified, and then that is your best shot at creating this environment for these kids to flourish to who they're gonna be. And you're going to, I make mistakes all the time.

Mm-hmm. All like all the time. And it's not trying to mask it or say like, no, that's okay. Or double down. It's like, ugh. And there's even, like, I am in a situation with one of my girls right now where I'm like, [00:37:00] Hmm, let's see. And that's really hard because the arc on the story is long. Mm-hmm. You can have a kid that you're implementing certain things and you don't know the return on it maybe for years.

Yeah. And so it's, it's kind of facing that and being like, I'm doing the best I can right now. I'm adapting as we go, and I could be completely wrong. Mm-hmm. And that's, that is a bitter pill to swallow as a parent. But I, I think you feel that way no matter what. Yeah. I feel like the stakes are so high to get it wrong.

It's, it's, it's a lot to lose. And I think that's hard for people. And I think that is sometimes what moves people into the tendency to try to hold on, to clinging, to, like, as you were saying, basically safety pad the child all around and not realizing that, I mean, I right now have a 12-year-old, and I'm really realizing like the, the job has mostly been done in terms of laying that foundation.

Mm-hmm. And now that [00:38:00] we're entering, like, we're 12, we're gonna be going on 13 now. I have to see how, how well of a job I've done. And, because at this point there's only basically, you know, I, I feel like it's like the pinball machine, you know, that's, that's what it's gonna be because there's no more molding, there's no shaping, like it's happened.

And that can feel really scary to people. It is. And so when people talk about, oh, I'm surrendering, right? Because I'm not a surrender person, I'm like. You know, will it work? It grind it. Mm-hmm. This is surrendering. This is the true surrendering. Uh, if you can really do it. And, and the other thing is, the other thing you learn as a parent is sometimes your children are going to do it really differently than the way you would do it.

Mm-hmm. And that is another hard thing. 'cause you think I'm gonna make them a, you know, a xerox copy of me and better. Yeah. Guess what? You might, you probably won't. They're gonna like things you don't like. They're gonna do it a way you [00:39:00] wouldn't do it. Um, and that is the other sort of interesting adventure that if you can, if you can appreciate the difference and you can actually say to them, okay, well how do you lean into that?

But still in that positive way. Mm-hmm. Whatever that looks like. I don't know. 'cause it, 'cause they're different than us. I think that's a lot. It comes back to your growth mindset that you talked about previously as well, because they may do things different than you, but if you're in a growth mindset, you're open to the possibility that there's other ways to do things and that maybe you would even see a perspective that you would've never arrived to on your own.

It's really interesting when you have a kid that's 15, 16 and in certain ways they're ahead of you. Mm-hmm. And when you, when you can actually verbalize that to them, I think it means a lot to them. I, I had to say that to my youngest daughter. I said, listen, I know you're hustling me [00:40:00] 'cause she hus me a lot and I actually know in all the ways that you are.

Yeah. I can't put my finger on it. I can't sense, but I sense it. And I said, because in certain ways you are smarter than me. Mm-hmm. And she said, oh, you think I'm smarter than you? I go, absolutely. You're not more experienced than me, but in certain ways you all are smarter than me. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and they've also been able to see you and your husband and learn so much.

And I think when you see two people who are working together but also working independently in life and you're able to absorb that, it gives you an edge. It gives you that, that foot up in life as opposed to feeling like you don't have role models and people to look to. And I'll add, you know, a caveat to all of it, which is.

There's advantages and disadvantages, right? So I didn't grow. I grew up, I didn't even always grow up with my parents. And so I can tell you the myriad of disadvantages, but there [00:41:00] are advantages because there was no expectation on me. Mm-hmm. What I did with my life. Right. Fast forward, my daughters, I can say, Hey, I'm your mom.

Here's your breakfast. Let's be decent people. Let's work hard. But the world is asking my children, what are you gonna do with your life? Yeah. So they have expectation that I didn't grow up with. If Laird and I just sort of paid our bills. Mm-hmm. Everyone was like, great. Now if Laird and I have strived and had the great gift of being able to be in pursuit and have any success in this worldly way, the world is asking my children, what are you gonna do?

So they have a different pressure. One, two, the phone. Phone, they, they grew up. Yeah. In a world that. When I say I'm closer to my mother's generation and my mother's and my grandmother and who, you know, they dealt with World War II and all these things. Mm-hmm. It's true for me to think I can understand what [00:42:00] my kids, especially my youngest one has grown up with.

This telephone in this world is not realistic. Mm-hmm. So there's even parts of the formula that I genuinely, my brain is not hardwired that way, that I don't understand. Have you done anything different with your daughters, given that you and your husband have had amazing success and knowing that the world now has this expectation of like.

And show us what you're gonna do next. You mean for them or for us? For them. Yeah. Well, I didn't realize that was what was happening until my middle daughter went through some stuff and a, a therapist said that to me. Mm-hmm. And it really, I was like, whoa, I never thought of that. Yeah. Even obligation. I got married, I didn't tell anyone.

I didn't ask anyone. I let my mother know six months after the fact because I wasn't, and just by the fact that Laird and I have been there and we have a really pretty good relationship with all of our girls and they, I think they love and respect us. I know we're annoying to our youngest ones still.

They're [00:43:00] obliged to us. Mm-hmm. We're not putting it on them. I've even said to them, Hey, when you're adults, if you come home for the holidays or for whatever, it's because it's good for you. Mm-hmm. You don't owe me anything. Don't be in any relationship except with your own children. You don't owe us anything.

Mm-hmm. We're your parents. Mm-hmm. I'm not gonna guilt you, I'm not gonna manipulate you. It has to be good for you. But I never thought about the pressure of, 'cause we're supposed to go beyond our parents. Yeah. Whatever that looks like. Mm-hmm. So that's something I learned and I was like, oh, I, I can be sensitive to that idea.

'cause we think, oh, we've given you everything. It's yay, whatever, you know, good education, whatever those things are that the world tells us. And then you don't realize it becomes a pressure on them. Mm-hmm. Like, oh, you have no excuse. For not doing something. Yeah. Because you've, you're entitled. Mm-hmm. And I didn't realize that that was a weird pressure.

Yeah. Yeah. I would imagine so. [00:44:00] And it sounds like it wasn't until they were much older that that became like a reality that set in, so it wasn't something that like, because they were nine, no one was being like, how's your volleyball skills? Like, how are things going? Yeah. And it wasn't until they got more into the years where, you know, kids are expected to be doing these days, it's like literally everything under the sun.

Mm-hmm. In preparation for college. Like you need to have, like every AP course you need to do every single sport. And you see so many children now who have anxiety disorder, they're hitting burnout, they're having. Chronic conditions that near what we see exhausted adults have overworked adults having Yeah.

And we never put that on them. I never pushed my kids in sports. I said, listen, you need to have a practice that you know how to take care of yourself. Mm-hmm. Like if you've been indoors for three days in a row, have some common sense and get outside in the sun. Yeah. Um, we, they under, they know what food is.

Mm-hmm. They're very well informed. 'cause it's just intuitive out of our house. Yeah. If you want to eat Chick-fil-A that's on you. Mm-hmm. And they all, they all [00:45:00] explore it. Yeah. And then they all come back to a version of what they do. But I, I, Laird and I, I think because we both know when you are in pursuit, that it is hard.

It's a lot of work. So my hope is that they understand the hard work part, but the pursuit is not what the world's telling them. But the pursuit is the thing that's inside them, that that's what they wanna wake up for each day and work out. Mm-hmm. And work hard for not for money or notoriety, or here's a trophy and you're the champion, or you're the CEO.

Because I have a lot of friends that are all those things. Mm-hmm. And they're not any happier. Yeah. And so for Laird and I, the good news is, is we've experienced it, versions of it in our own life, and we know enough people that that wasn't really the messaging. Mm-hmm. So it's maybe softened actually in our house, but the world still is, you know?

Yeah. Pressing them. Yeah. Well, speaking of hard work, I wanna talk about your physical [00:46:00] performance because you truly defy what society says it should look like as we age. And I would like to hear from you, you know. Women feeling like they're disconnected from their bodies, women feeling like maybe it's too late to start.

What would you say to them? I always say consistency is more important than quantity number one, if you didn't grow up in it, let's say you didn't have brothers and you didn't grow up in sports, it's still, you're an athlete even if you weren't raised like one. Mm-hmm. And, and so sometimes it's easier to deal with your body when you look at it as a tool.

Not like, I'm not fitting into my pants anymore. Yeah. That's just torture. Mm-hmm. So to reframe it a little and be like, I'm gonna take this tool out for a walk, or, I've never done this before, so I, I, gyms are scary. They're intimidating. It seems like it's only guys in there and like, oh, you're gonna bang iron.

Like even the [00:47:00] verbiage around it. So what I would say to them is, one, it's never too late. Two, you can, the importance of building strength. Doesn't mean you're gonna get too big. Yeah. 'cause that's the other thing they do. I don't wanna get too big. It's like, okay, well it's, do you know how hard that is?

It's very hard. It's very hard. Right. So, so sort of getting them to reframe it and you, and think of it as a tool. It's the, for me it's the, it's the housing, the fortress that can hold my spirit or my desires mm-hmm. Or my goals or the things I'm trying to do. And do it create a plan that is something. You can deal with.

Because if people work out, like if someone goes, Hey, I hate to be indoors, and I, I really don't like weights, it's like, okay, fair enough. So what can you do outside? And Pilates is great, but you do need to lift, you know, time under tension. Mm-hmm. You gotta lift something heavy. What could you agree to, to do that and put a little effort to that.

And if you don't know, hire [00:48:00] somebody. Yeah. And also create a community. I do not do this alone. I'm 55 years old. Mm-hmm. I have not, I was on a team, I had strength coaches. I still work out with many people at one time because it's the only way I can get it done. You cannot do it unless you are, you know, the small 1% that they're long distance runners and they go off.

Mm-hmm. And they run on their own. The gelles of the world, they're, they're meditative time. Yeah. They, they do exist. But I, I, I wanna encourage, especially women, they're so afraid, like, oh, I don't wanna get sweaty. My makeup's gonna get messed up my hair. It's like, no, this is a. This is something you owe yourself mm-hmm.

To discover that does make everything else easier, including aging. Mm-hmm. And, and for, so, I mean, and I, I experienced this, you know, I was, I was in sports, which is very physical. I modeling, it's very, you know, subjective, I'm aging, you know, I have three beautiful daughters [00:49:00] that remind me how old I am.

Mm-hmm. It's like we gotta redefine it as we're going. Mm-hmm. Because if I'm comparing myself to the old Gabby, I'm gonna be disappointed. If I'm afraid of aging, I'm not taking advantage of actually how young and healthy I am right now. Yeah. It is tough. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna say it's tough. So community get help if you don't have the information, create a strategy in the beginning.

Mm-hmm. You gotta have a plan. Like everything, when you wanna get somewhere, you know, the roads, it's not just gonna happen and you gotta schedule like everything else. But also as we get older, if you haven't done it, it, it's just, it's never too late to start. And if you're young mm-hmm. Start right now because I think we think, oh, I can put on eyelashes or do my hair.

Especially now. Right. Like they do so much of this orchestration mm-hmm. Because of the internet and they don't realize that [00:50:00] sometimes you gotta strip it all down and. And just do that consistent work because in the other end of it, the rewards, whether it's hormonally, how you look, how you feel, the energy you have.

Yeah. Um, the endurance, whatever it is, you're not gonna be unhappy. Mm-hmm. So you've brought up the modeling, the being in pro sports and the aging component. Mm. How do you view beauty now? Like you, you've really gone through a transformation in your life, and I'm just curious your perspective now, has it shifted in how you look at beauty?

No, I, you know, quite frankly, I think because I did have like kind of a wobbly childhood mm-hmm. And I'm, you know, weirdly tall in, in certain ways. I never really identified, uh. With this idea of beauty. Mm-hmm. It was sort of like, we're all different. We're all who we are. And, and I have been around [00:51:00] so many extraordinary women, whether it's talented, intelligent, drop dead, gorgeous in the, in the standards that the world gives us.

And I realized that I'm in my own road and I just gotta make that road one that I want to travel on. Because at six three, I'm never gonna be a size two. Mm-hmm. I weigh 180 pounds. I'm never gonna be cute and, you know, little, um, now it's okay, I am this age. I'm not gonna be 25. So it's sort of like, how can I be who I am?

Yeah. Make that the best person. So if I had this curly hair, I'd be like, great. How do I make that hair work for me? Love it. And, and enjoy it. Because what you start to see is the people, the women who feel good about themselves. That's the beauty. Mm. It's not that they look a certain way, it's when you see them, you go, she looks like she has vitality.

She has a spark in her [00:52:00] eye. Yeah. And that's the beauty. And you know, there's days I go too close to the mirror and I go, it's probably not a good idea. Mm-hmm. Move, move on, move away. Yeah. Um, but it's, it's also understanding too that uh, if we are looking at everyone around us and we're meant to be like them or, or get, you know, the world's definition of beauty.

That's a, that's just a race you can't win. Mm-hmm. Even if you're 20. And we see a lot that there's this expectation that once you enter your own forties, it's the pursuit of always looking like you're in your twenties. Mm-hmm. And there's a lot of pressure on women to achieve that in society. Mm-hmm. What would you say to women who are filling that pressure?

It's probably really natural, but I, I have a, a, a philosophy in life of like, [00:53:00] alright, it's like gravity. You know, what are the things that really you can't change? Mm-hmm. And so if you're 40 or 40, how exciting and great. And how can you be the best version of yourself? And yeah, if you wanna do this and that and it makes you feel good, but if you're doing the, the sort of first principle things.

That's what you need to focus on. So, am I getting to bed? Mm-hmm. Am I eating well? Am I moving my body? Am I in happy relationships? Doesn't mean married, it just means good communal relationships. Mm-hmm. Do I have meaningful friendships? Do I have a good relationship with myself first? Um, I, I think if we keep focusing on those things over and over and over, because there's only so much time in the day.

Yeah. We're gonna end up at a much easier place than if we, if we keep looking out. Mm-hmm. Um, and not to mention, I have one of my [00:54:00] daughter will show me, she go, what do you think of this girl? And I go, why are you showing me a girl that this isn't even real? Yeah. There's 97 filters. It's like, why are you asking me to analyze this?

Mm-hmm. Why are you taking this serious? It would be like with, when I was working in fashion, you see the cover of a magazine? You could, I could be standing here. The magazine could be here. The real person looks nothing like the person there. Really? Yeah. So I think it's also having enough discernment to go, we're also comparing ourselves to things that aren't even real.

What are we, it's like an AI thing. Mm-hmm. Like you're, you know, or have we lost our mind? Yeah. And so the temptation's real. I get it. But you, I think when you get those other practices in place, they keep you grounded enough that you can then sort of keep that at bay. Mm-hmm. At least it better doesn't mean you don't fall for it and go, oh.

Yeah, but I, I think it certainly makes it easier. It [00:55:00] is certainly difficult. Like I think about how growing up it was the magazine covers mm-hmm. And we didn't realize how photoshopped those things were. Yeah. And then I remember, um, gosh, was this in the nineties, maybe the early two thousands where they did exactly that?

They put the model and they put the cover next to 'em and they looked completely different. And I think, you know, all of our jaws dropped and we're like, wait, we've been trying to attain this body, this look. And yet it was never real to begin with. And now we have social media where. You can't even open up some apps to record on social media without it automatically putting a filter on your face.

Mm-hmm. I remember I recorded some videos on TikTok and I was like, what? It's going on. I just feel like something's off. And I didn't realize that there was a contouring filter where it was like my nose was completely different. I'm like, that's weird. Why would I want that? And I just think how it was growing up with magazines and how much more difficult it must be now, because you can't even detect when there's [00:56:00] filters, when there's not.

Now we've also got ai. Mm-hmm. Are you having conversations with your daughters about this? Because I can only imagine how difficult that is. It's only my youngest. The other one's never bit the hook. Okay. They're, they're pretty smart. The youngest is, I see her and it's like, oh, my nose, my lips went up. And you already like that as a teenager.

Mm-hmm. You're pretty, you're pretty hard on yourself. Yeah. It's, I don't know. I really couldn't imagine trying to develop a sense of self Yeah. In that environment. Not to mention does the person look perfect, but they're also like on a beach or on a yacht, or on the perfect outfit and all like mm-hmm.

It's all the perfection. Right. And, and the other thing that's so funny is women, I believe typically have done it really as a, it's really more of a signal to other women. Oh yeah. It isn't really, men are not, they're not like, oh, I like her more because, you know, her hair's long or straight or her, she has no pores.

Yeah. You know, it's ridiculous. So [00:57:00] that's why it's important to develop yourself as a person, your interests. Um, what are, what are you waking up for each day? Mm-hmm. Is it to look perfect or is it to get shit done? Yeah. And for me, if I can just keep my life full enough. And have value and, and have skills and contribute, um, and leverage as you get older.

Mm-hmm. For me, it's like, how do I help the people that are younger than me? And also, how do I have leverage because I've developed these skills and have these experiences. So there's a shrewdness within that that's like, Hey, I'm going to, if I'm not procreating and I'm not perfectly pretty mm-hmm. And that's not what my value is, then I, I wanna be a boss.

Mm-hmm. And like, I wanna own stuff and do stuff and, and, um, and like I said, help the group below me. Maybe make, you know, some of it easier to navigate. Mm-hmm. That, you know, that, that [00:58:00] like, if I'm not doing this, then I wanna do that. You talked about earlier, like figuring out what you want. Mm. What is like a mindset hack or one thing that women can do to really.

Peel back the layers against what societies told them they should want and really understand what it is they want at their core. I think we have to figure out a way to be really honest with ourselves, because a lot of people do give lip service to like, I wanna do this, I wanna do that. But there's no, then there's no follow up, there's no action, there's no plan.

They don't go to ask somebody to, you know, can they be mentored by them? Mm-hmm. Listen, you could be 35 and go seek somebody out, even if they're 27, and say, Hey, can you help me? You know about this. I, I wanna learn. So I think it's, I always say, well, I try to go through my life with grace and total accountability because I need the grace so that I can be kind to myself mm-hmm.

For my foibles and my flaws, and then be totally accountable so I'm not [00:59:00] bullshitting myself. It's like, oh, you want that, but are you doing anything about it? Mm-hmm. So I think if a woman is younger, she's younger before she's, you know. In, in a family, it's easier. Mm-hmm. Because you're j you've just left your family, so you can quiet your family's voice and say, who am I in this moment?

'cause you're a lot of people throughout your life, what are, what, what really does excite me? What would I be willing to work hard for each day? Okay. Now how would I do that? What's, what are some steps? Oh, I don't know. Who can I talk to that would help me do that? So a lot of times I find that people give a lot of lip service to I wanna do this.

I like that. I want that. Yeah. But they don't kind of get down and dirty mm-hmm. In it. Mm-hmm. It's an uncomfortable process. Like, what am I good at? Who am I, what am I not good at? Where are my weaknesses? What are my strengths? Um, am I willing to bend and flex [01:00:00] what I work for free for a while? And then if, if we have kids and, and we sort of have been everything for everybody else, maybe it's giving yourself permission.

To ask yourself what all my life to look like in a year in three and five. Mm-hmm. And then back into that, sometimes it's reverse engineering into where I hope I could be in five years. Um, and then being, it, it, it sort of takes some objectivity, right? You can't just approach it emotionally. Mm-hmm. You can be passionate and emotional about what you're trying to achieve.

Then you have to come out of it and objectively go, what does that look like? What's a plan? And um, and it, I think it's okay. And it's also okay to let your partner know, like, I know you married me and I was this, and now I'd also like to add on. Mm-hmm. To who this is, to this story. 'cause that's the other thing too, is people go, you're [01:01:00] so different.

Or Why are you acting so weird? Or you go to the gym all the time now, or you changed your eating. It's like, yeah. I'm growing and changing as a person. Mm-hmm. And so kind of fighting for that space a little bit. 'cause our families and our partners and our job and our friends, they, they oftentimes, depending on who they are, will try to keep us as this person that we know.

Mm-hmm. And I'm comfortable, you know, I, I know you. It's like Yeah. You know, part of me. And, and that's where that brutality comes in. Yeah. I think that what you just shared is so important for women who are going in their perimenopausal phase of life. Because as you said, it's like the ideal, could we have taken space from our families at like 1821 and figured out who we were?

And most of us didn't do that. Yeah. Most of us were still like, what's the playbook Society handed me? That is the what I'm gonna follow. 'cause that's the path to success. And yet it's when we get into that perimenopausal phase that. [01:02:00] Happens to coincide when most children are leaving the house. Mm-hmm.

That it's like, well, wait, who am I now? Now I have this opportunity. And what you're saying is so interesting about talking to your partner because we know it's like roughly like 70% of divorces are happening, women initiated when women are in perimenopause. Mm-hmm. And people jump to like, oh, it's their hormones.

And I am like, it's not that their hormones make them crazy, it's that their hormones don't allow 'em to put up with the same bullshit that they've put up with Yes. Their entire life and their capacity to just get walked all over mm-hmm. Is gone. Mm-hmm. And so this fact of like recognizing, taking inventory of what do I want, who do I wanna be?

And then having that discussion with your partner, I think that's the piece that gets left out because as women will start to evolve and change as they should. Mm-hmm. Sometimes the partner actually feels like I'm being left behind. It's not just that you're changing, it's that you are changing away from me.

Yeah. I think this [01:03:00] is a really important point. And also what happens is, right, so our estrogen drops, so technically we actually have more testosterone. Mm-hmm. And for men, as they get older, their testosterone drops. So it's this really interesting, all of a sudden they wanna hold hands and they're, and you're just like, bitch, like I've been here and now you wanna like, be on the couch and like, you know, hold hands.

And now I like, I'm kid free and also maybe I wanna do something and I have mm-hmm. You know, I do have this other voice where I am. I'm not trying to please everybody all the time. Um, and I do think there's a way to do it lovingly. And that's why I wanna encourage women if, if they could actually start sooner.

Mm-hmm. 'cause it won't be such a surprise to everybody. Yeah. But yes, it's like, oh, she's crazy. Oh, she's, it's like, well, no, she's done everything else. For everybody else. The kids go off and go, thanks, I have a life now. I'll give you a call once a month. Mm-hmm. And your partner didn't really lose stride.

Right. They were [01:04:00] working, they were doing their thing. They were playing their weekend game that they like, whatever that was with their friends, which is healthy, by the way. Yeah. Um, and she's going, wait a second, what about me? And I don't, and time, right? Mm-hmm. Time's ticking. You start to go, wait 20 years and 30 years, I'm gonna be this old.

Yeah. So I think it's, it's, you can do it in a loving way. I don't think you have to blow up your life. Mm-hmm. Especially if your partner is game. And I think they oftentimes are, they just need a beat and they need a chance. Yeah. Um, and we can't be mad at everybody. We also set it up this way. Mm-hmm.

That's the other thing. And that, that's what I remember seeing really early. I, I'm very hypervigilant. It comes from my childhood and so I would scan the landscape and be like, oh, wait a second. I don't wanna get spit out of this process of having a family and being really pissed off at everybody. Yeah.

Because I got left behind. Mm-hmm. So what am I gonna do about that? Yeah. And, and she also has to [01:05:00] know that she has value to contribute. Mm-hmm. Because she does have experience. And if you can be in a relationship and have a family, or not have a family and do business, whatever life experience that brought you to this point mm-hmm.

It's a value to the rest of the world. It's confusing and you don't always know, like, can I monetize that value? How do, what does that look like? How does it show up? But it is valuable. Mm-hmm. Because you've lived that long and you've experienced them a lot, and I feel like this goes full circle back to the beginning of what you were talking about, about prioritizing yourself, knowing what you want, making sure, you know, essentially we hear that you can't pour from an empty cup.

Mm-hmm. Making sure that you are fulfilled. But you said that we essentially contribute to this game. Like we've contributed to the outcome of being angry and bitter at everybody. Feeling like we've given everything, getting nothing back. What are the checks that you can have as an individual to make sure that like you are not continuing to contribute [01:06:00] to the outcome that you don't want?

Well, one thing I learned brutally when I was 30 is I wasn't taught healthy conflict. Mm. So I was very stoic. And then I thought, oh yeah, no. After five years of being very stoic with Laird, I blew up our marriage. Mm-hmm. In a real way. And I remember, you know, us circling back, sort of, we were almost divorced and I was like, you know, this and this and this and this.

And he and my husband is very confrontational in the best way. Mm-hmm. And he said to me, why don't you say anything? And I thought That's a good point. Yeah. And so one is I would like to invite people, have an uncomfortable conversation for an hour. Mm-hmm. To save yourself potentially a, a distance from your partner that you don't even know how to work back.

Two, because you don't even really know [01:07:00] what the original impetus was. Yeah. Because you let years and years go and I'm not, I don't wanna upset him and I don't wanna, you know, it's like no have, and you can frame it, you, you can say, Hey listen, this isn't about, it's your fault or my fault. These are the things I'm experiencing.

Mm-hmm. These are my feelings. Because we sort of think in relationships like we have all these feelings and one person, it's supposed to be their right and I'm wrong. That's not it at all. Yeah. What you're doing is you're navigating life as two individuals, as a couple and maybe as a family. So as new things show up, new needs, new interests, something you learn about yourself is be willing to have rock the boat.

Mm-hmm. So you don't blow it up later and sink it. 'cause that's usually what happens. And, and. Give your partner the benefit of the doubt that they will figure out also a way to dance with you. Mm-hmm. And it's okay if you make someone uncomfortable. It's okay [01:08:00] if you make a business partner uncomfortable or you say something somebody doesn't like or they don't agree with.

Or, you know, that's the thing is we're, we are so scared to, um, is that okay? You know? Mm-hmm. Like, is this okay? And I feel like the sooner we can get out of that, but come from love. Yeah. You don't have to be ramped up, pissed off, blame game. Just be like, Hey, I'm going through this. Mm-hmm. I gotta navigate it 'cause I know it's gonna be a, it's, it's a thing.

Yeah. And so I would say that, and if you're older, it, it's sort of like not the other person's fault. Y you know, should they have noticed maybe. Mm-hmm. Maybe their brain doesn't work that way. Maybe they were, I have one kid who's empathetic. I have another kid where I could be so angry. It never occurs to her.

It's about her. Unless I say, Hey, I need to talk to you about something, it, this is about you. It doesn't take anything personal. Mm-hmm. So maybe your partner's, like, I'm sure she'll let me know. Yeah. And [01:09:00] so sometimes the stories. Mm-hmm. Right? Like when we talk about not living by the narrative, I think women really live by so many narratives.

That person was weird to me. Maybe they don't like me. What's wrong? Mm-hmm. It's like, it's got nothing to do with you. And it's conversely the other side, they're not, not noticing 'cause they don't love you or they don't care. They don't know. Yeah. And so, kind of speaking up and learning to communicate in a way that isn't necessarily combative.

But with the idea that if I share this with the person, I'm giving myself and them and us an opportunity to be in a better place. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's why I'm so intense about feeling healthy. Yeah. Because when you feel good, you have a, you know, uh, Viktor Frankl talks about, uh, stimulus in response.

Mm-hmm. You always have a little more distance. Mm-hmm. So you don't have to be hysterical. And all the things that we get accused of being Yeah. Because we waited so long [01:10:00] that we're blowing a gasket and God forbid we're in menopause. And then we don't have the, you know, progesterone to give us some buoyancy to be like, oh, that's cool.

Yeah. And then we're just like, okay, F off everybody f you know, I'm taking a book and I'm going on a trip. Absolutely. And you can all. You know, the reality is, is that many women fall into the people pleasing, which is what you were saying. Mm-hmm. Not wanting to step on toes, not wanting to upset anyone.

You will no longer have the capacity to people please when your hormones exit the building. And they will. Because if you live long enough, and that's what we want, they will exit the building. You will go into menopause. And I think that is something that every one of us who are on the road ahead need to be telling to all of those about the journey on the same path as us, is that you've got to stop people pleasing, and you have got to find a way to manage conflict.

Because as you were saying, no, progesterone means no. GABA means no stop breaks. Mm. No filter on your mouth, no frontal lobe inhibition. You blow up, you say [01:11:00] the things, and it's sometimes. In the moment. I mean, yes, justifiable and other times it is just the pot has been simmering for so long and now things are boiling over.

And I think we have to be aware of that now so that we can prepare for that. We don't wanna blow up our relationships. I mean, maybe you do, maybe you're like, some of these people gotta go, but Well, yeah. Or like, Hey, this was a success high five, our kids are big. Guess what? Yeah. And that's okay too. That's success.

You know, it's, it's sort of like there's a million ways to cut the pie. Mm-hmm. But I agree. And what we're taught when we're young women especially, is, you know, be a nice girl. Be nice. And, and also the way women interact with each other, right? It's all, can you believe she said this and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. And so, how do we also develop the skillset? And, and this was why I always say go back to love. If I, if I am speaking of love, I, I'm not trying to cut you. You know, I showed her mm-hmm. Or him. But it's like, this is coming [01:12:00] from love, but I know this is a real thing, but it is very direct and it is so hard to do.

And that's why in my physical practice, I'm in my masculine energy. Mm-hmm. I'm developing that. So I have it as a tool when I need it. Hey, this is just Information Nation. It's not personal. Mm-hmm. So like, you can switch in and out of those gears. 'cause if we're always in that feminine, feminine, feminine, feminine, it's hard to slide over and go, I'm just giving some information, you know, trying to navigate some stuff and, and it makes people uncomfortable.

Mm-hmm. Like even being a boss, a female CEO has to be like, Hey, I'm sorry, um, we've said that you're gonna do this. You haven't done this, either you're out or, you know, and people can be like, I can't believe this isn't about me. Mm-hmm. So it's also learning. No, this is, this is your stuff. Yeah. And I, by the way, I'm still a good person.

Mm-hmm. Because we really [01:13:00] marry peace with, oh, I'm a good person. And you know what? I don't even care at this point. Obviously at this age. You like me, you don't like me, you don't agree, you don't, you know, it's like, what does Byron Katie say? What you think of me is none of my business. Mm-hmm. At some point we have to liberate from trying to make everybody happy 'cause you won't.

Mm-hmm. Oh, well, I think that is the gift of the menopausal transition. It really is. It's just so drastic. It really is. But you know, I am, uh, I'm coming up on my mid forties that it's something that, uh, the other day, you know, people as they do on the internet where like, accusing me of this or that. Mm-hmm.

Because one action, you know, dictates everyone, everything about you. And I was like, you know what? I am confident enough in my actions over my lifetime and the quality of my character that I don't need to defend myself on this. And if you're gonna judge me off of this one moment of my life, then you were never for me and I was never for you.

Go on your way. And I was like, oh, wow, [01:14:00] all right. Like, this is, yeah, this is that, like getting that wisdom. But I'm like, man, I wish 20 something year old me would've known this. So, uh, Robert Waldinger, he runs the Harvard study mm-hmm. On happiness. And, uh, I interviewed him and asked him, you know, the dao it's like, go, how far back do you wanna go back to talk about happiness or kind of life?

Mm-hmm. There's a million books about this. Yeah. Right. And I said, why can't we figure this out? Like, why couldn't I tell my my daughters? And they're, by the way, they're at it much sooner. Mm-hmm. They don't, they don't, they're not worried. My youngest daughter's not here to please anybody at all. Love it for her.

I'm trying to give her a little empathy. Yeah. But you know, it's just like, she'll say like, it's not that deep. You know? Mm-hmm. Even like saying no to kissing a boy because he tried to kiss her, but she doesn't wanna kiss him. Yeah. She's like, it's not that deep. It's no. Yeah. It's the same in every language.

And I'm like, whoa. I'm, I'm sure I kissed some boys just to like totally make them feel okay. Right? Yeah. [01:15:00] But I said, you know, Robert, why can't we fig? Why can't we get it sooner? And he's like, oh, Gabby. That's how we get wisdom. Mm. And so there's always gonna be a part of this that going back to when our kids are young, you have to understand it for yourself.

Mm-hmm. We can tell them, we can encourage them and try to foster that, but at, at the end, it's, it's like you really, you gotta go through it. Yeah. You are not elite athlete, a boss, a mom. You have so many accomplishments. What is one morning practice that is like a non-negotiable for you, that you're like, this happens to set the tone for my days?

You know, I don't wake up particularly like. I am, you know, I don't wake up quick. Mm-hmm. Um, and so what I do when I land on in my bed before I put my feet on the floor and my husband wakes up hours before I do, is I say, okay, who am I trying to be and what are the [01:16:00] things that I'm grateful for in my life?

For real? Not some Pollyanna. Like, I'm so grateful. It's like, yeah, hey, everybody's healthy. Mm-hmm. We have a roof over our head. Let's get serious like I have running water. Like yeah. What are the things I'm grateful for? And who am I trying to be? Who am I trying to show up for in the world for myself and for the people that I deeply care about and love and respect and the world that I live in.

And once I have that in focus doesn't take long 'cause it's the same thing, then I put my feet on the floor. Mm-hmm. And the other part of that is I organize myself before I walk outta my bedroom. So even if I'm outta sorts in any way, at least I've. I've put myself together and I'm kind of ready. Mm-hmm.

Uh, and then I, if I am not doing something immediate in my work, I train, it's the training that it just sets me in that trajectory mm-hmm. Where I have the best fighting shot to kind of navigate who I'm trying to be [01:17:00] to the best of my ability. I think that is incredibly powerful to decide who you wanna be before society or anyone gets to influence your day.

So I appreciate you sharing that with us, and I really appreciated this conversation. It's been so insightful and so wonderful. Well, I, I really thank you for having me. And, and when I ask that question about who I, I'm trying to be, when, when people ask themselves, it's for you, not who am I trying to be for everyone else in the world?

Who am I gonna admire respect, and who do I think. When I say that, that's realistic to who I am. And so I just wanna add that caveat because I think it's so important that people really are given the space to try to figure out who I am. Mm-hmm. And, and you know, as you get older, right? Like you're gonna let go of your identity.

That's the other part, but it's still kind of going Yeah, but [01:18:00] who, who am I? What's in my essence? Mm-hmm. 'cause that seems to be a little easier. But anyway, thank you. And, and, um, I'm fumbling through like everyone else. Let's be clear. I just wanna say that like, I, you know, I'm banging, like you talk about the ping pong.

Yeah. Still doing that. Yeah. I just, you know, just try to adjust quicker and, and pay attention. Mm-hmm. Like notice, like I felt that 16 times this week, maybe I should address it. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Well beautifully said. And again, thank you so much for sharing your time and your wisdom with us. Oh, thanks.

 

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