Raising Kids with Big Feelings: Tantrums, Emotional Regulation, & ADHD Symptoms in Kids | Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart

Dr. Lockhart: [00:00:00] Tantrums are developmentally appropriate for toddlers. We also have to remember like kids don't have to be mature. Let them be kids. And I think sometimes when we take them out of that role in that box, then we make life less fun for them and we make it more miserable for us. With the tantrums, it's really best to prepare in advance because giving into the tantrum in terms of the demand just reinforces it.

Dr. Brighten: Why often we still hear you just need to spank them. That's a child who's not being spanked. What do we know about spanking and what it actually does to the brain? 

Narrator 1: Dr. Ann Louise Lockhart 

Narrator 2: is a powerhouse pediatric psychologist. Parent, coach and national speaker known for making complex child psychology, both accessible and engaging 

Narrator 1: with over 18 years of experience.

She's a leading expert on A DHD executive functioning, anxiety and highly sensitive kids, 

Narrator 2: helping overwhelmed parents navigate challenges with clarity and confidence. 

Narrator 1: A dynamic educator and business owner based in San Antonio, Texas. [00:01:00] Dr. Lockhart blends science, humor, and heart to transform family dynamics and empower the next generation 

Dr. Lockhart: when our nervous system is in fight, flight, freeze, or fawn.

No learning is occurring anyway 'cause we're in survival mode. And the way the brain learns best is when it's not in a, 

Dr. Brighten: how does unaddressed anxiety in children show up as they transition to being a teen or even into an adult? The thing about anxiety, it's welcome back to the Dr. Brighten Show. I'm your host, Dr.

Jolene Brighten. I'm board certified in naturopathic endocrinology, a nutrition scientist, a certified sex counselor, and a certified menopause specialist. As always, I'm bringing you the latest, most up-to-date information to help you take charge of your health and take back your hormones. If you enjoy this kind of information, I invite you to visit my website, dr brighten.com, where I have a ton of free resources for you, including a newsletter that brings you some [00:02:00] of the best information, including a.

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Dr. Anne Louise Lockhart. Welcome to the Dr. Brighton Show. I am very, very excited for today's conversation. For every single person who wants to become a parent or is a parent, you definitely need to tune into this one and share it with all your people. 

Dr. Lockhart: Yes, thank you for having me. I'm really happy to be here.

Dr. Brighten: Aha. [00:03:00] So you make all kinds of fantastic content. Uh, we're gonna link in the show notes to your social media 'cause I definitely think people can learn a lot from you. You said something though that really struck a chord in my household and that was. Stop being the frontal lobe for the entire family. What do you mean by that?

Dr. Lockhart: Yeah, that was a really popular one. It, it's funny, I saw a meme around the time when I was creating a lot of content about executive functioning and the mental lobe and parents feeling exhausted. And I saw that it's like, stop being the frontal lobe for the entire family. And I'm like, yeah, that's exactly what's happening.

Why parents? Feel that way. So when I say that, what it's about is, as we know, I hope we know by now with all the information that's out there about executive functioning, which is in the frontal lobe. And the frontal lobe is responsible for executing functions, hence the name. So helping us with things like attention and organization and time [00:04:00] management and starting and finishing a task and prioritizing things, um, our personality.

So all of that stuff is happening. So what parents are often doing is that they're being the frontal lobe for their kids to the point where their kids are not learning the skills. They're over parenting sometimes. And because we have so much access to so much more information than we ever have. What's happening is parents are then waking up their kids multiple times a day, cleaning their rooms for themselves, uh, by, um, themselves, uh, doing their laundry, cooking the food, like all of these things and not really allowing the teen or the child to learn the skills.

And then what's happening is they're holding all this information in their head, not delegating it to other members of the family, and so then they're exhausted. I'm like, well, yeah. Mm-hmm. Because you're being the frontal lobe for everybody and that weight is heavy, and so, yeah. Mm-hmm. That's why I think that's very accurate because I think a lot of us as parents are doing that.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. I have said more than once in my household, you don't get to borrow my [00:05:00] brain. You don't get to borrow my brain. There are times where I'm like, okay, yes, you need to borrow my brain, but I think everyone listening, well, if it hasn't happened to you yet, you're probably not in your forties yet, because once we get into perimenopause, it seemed to be a lot harder to let people borrow your brain, but you brought up something interesting, which is like.

Enabling your kids to do these tasks, to do these chores and teaching them. I think a big question that comes up for people is that at what age do we start fostering the executive function in our child? 

Dr. Lockhart: That's a great question. I think we start as early as we can. I mean, because even when it comes to play and language and relationships, we do that from when they're a baby.

We're talking to them, we're reading to them. They can't understand when you're doing that stuff. But that's a way of connecting. And so I think in small little ways. From really from the time when they're really little. But really when they're toddlers, it's you're explaining and talking about things.

That's why you hear like the [00:06:00] cleanup song for toddlers and daycare, right? What you're teaching them is executive functioning, how to start something, how to prioritize, what you're gonna pick up, where it goes, how to organize things, how to manage your time so you're not cleaning up all morning. So we can do it from a very young age in playful and engaging ways.

And I think I, I think sometimes as parents, we think, well, we have to do it in a way that's nagging or lecturing or just, just miserable. And that's not the way you could do it. It's done in a very playful way because the way the brain learns best is when it's not in a threatened state. And punishment and lecturing and nagging puts the brain and the nervous system in this threatened state, and then it shuts down and it doesn't want to engage and learn and do the thing anymore.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. This is so true, and I imagine there's some people with preteens right now being like, yeah, that's great for a toddler, but how do you do this with a preteen who is now, you know, bumping up against [00:07:00] like, you, you can't tell me what to do, or, you know, just trying to exert some autonomy. I, which is normal.

Totally. Which is a normal part of development, and yet, oh man, it can be so frustrating and so challenging. 

Dr. Lockhart: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's why you set the foundation early on, so then it becomes part of the household. It's, it's, you're not really doing it in the sense of. Interrupting their cycle of what they're doing already.

So they're watching tv and then you're like, okay, oh, it's time to clean your room. Like that does feel like a disruption. And it's hard for them to switch gears because again, that's all part of executive functioning, that's all part of frontal lobe stuff. So you do it as part of your ongoing routine. So like one of the things that I do with my kids, my preteens and my teen, is the reset.

You wake up in the morning, you get dressed for school and you just quickly reset your room. Now does that happen a hundred percent of the time? Absolutely not 50% at best. Mm-hmm. But it is part of the normal routine. We [00:08:00] finish eating at dinner. We clean up the dishes, load up the dishes, wipe down the counters, mop the floor, whatever it is with the robot vacuum, you just, it's part of the routine.

It's part of the natural cycle. So it's not like this extra burden. And so I think if we can make it as part of the natural flow of things that it doesn't feel like, oh, now I gotta do my chores. It's just part of what you do. And it's part of maintaining habits and it's actually healthy for them to do this.

So that way when they are out on their own, they know how to maintain their space. They know how to do laundry, they know how to wash dishes. They know how to cook for themselves. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Now you are talking a lot about routine and how important that is. There are a lot of moms who are stuck right now being the everything to everyone in their house and taking this all on.

They might not have that routine in place. Where do they start with that? 

Dr. Lockhart: Yes, that's a great question. So I like to always start and encourage parents to do it first in the way. Uh, what are, what are your teens [00:09:00] strengths? For example, what, what do they love doing around the house? Uh, there's something that they're good at, something that they're really enjoy doing, whether it's dusting or mopping or cooking or vacuuming.

Just picking something that they enjoy or that they're super good at. And one of the things that I really encourage is. You want to build up a skill by body doubling and body doubling is where you're doing it alongside of them. Mm-hmm. So that they can learn how it's done and what, how it's, you know, how to do it, basically.

And setting a timer. Because what I find for lots of kids and teens is they don't like doing these things because it feels like it takes forever. Yeah. And when they can really then predict, okay, how long do you think this really should take? Okay, well let's then put down the predicted time and then let's set a timer and see how long it actually takes.

Put on some music, you know, jam it out, do some things with it, and just get it done in that timeframe so it does not take forever. Mm-hmm. So I think what often happens with a lot of parents is they take on the burden because [00:10:00] they feel like it's better that I just do it myself. Yeah. Because the kid does it halfheartedly or not at all.

Or I'm constantly nagging them so much that it's destroying the relationship. And I'm like, well, you have to start the foundation in terms of teaching young if you've missed that opportunity. Then really doing the body doubling with them and then showing them on a realistic kind of perspective, how long something really should take and don't give them 20 things that they should be doing.

Give them three things that they should be, that they should be doing consistently, so it just becomes part of their routine. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. You talked about body doubling. I think that's a great tool. I don't know that people really understand the why behind body doubling. Can you explain that? 

Dr. Lockhart: Yeah. Yeah. So body doubling what happens when you are called to do something and you find that it is boring, excruciating, taking up too much of your time.

You don't have the tools that you need, it is hard to start a task. [00:11:00] And that task, initiate initiation is a big executive function skill. That can be really hard, especially if you're dealing with a neurodivergent kid. So a kid who has uh, A DHD for example, and starting something can feel like too big of a task.

So body doubling can be very effective. 'cause what you're essentially doing is modeling for them. So for example, before, if you have a kid on a sports team, how do they prepare for the big game or tournament? They practice because they have to practice the skill so that when the game starts, they know how to perform.

When you're gonna be in a play, you have rehearsals so that you can practice the lines and the placement and all the moves and everything before the big play. And it's the same thing with life. Like how can we expect a kid or a teen. To just know how to do laundry or know how to clean their room or know how to organize things if we've never given them the skill.

So executive functions are skills, and [00:12:00] so the body doubling in a sense, is helping with the rehearsal. You're giving them a a file system to go to so they could put it away. So then when it's like, oh, okay, this is how I clean a garage. This is how I do this, this is how I do that, and that's done through rehearsal.

And the best way is to see you doing it and for you to model it for them. And that's why it can be so eff effective. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. I love that. That is such a great explanation. And you, you brought up a DHD Currently we're seeing. A lot of people are starting to get diagnosed with A DHD and autism, and the backlash has been, this is just a trend, it's a trendy diagnosis.

What are your thoughts about that? Yes, and in the rise of diagnosis, 

Dr. Lockhart: I think people have to realize that just because we're hearing a lot about something doesn't make it a trend. There's lots of things that have been around for eons. Um, A DHD was actually thought of discovered, seen in the early, early 19 hundreds.

I believe it's 1901. It's been around a long time. [00:13:00] And it wasn't until the mid, like 1970s or so that they realized, oh, adults also have it as well too. But in terms of how it was con conceptualized has changed and morphed over time. It used to be thought to be a moral deficit disorder in the early, early, um, because of, again, the, the times, and then it was seen as a hyperkinetic thing where they just cannot control their body.

Um, so then it, it kind of has changed and moved over over time, but it's one of the most studied diagnostic, um, things that we see out there. This, uh, disorders developmental, uh, concerns because it's been around and so people are just now being more educated about it. There's more, because I mean, look at what we have now, this technology that we have, that we could instantly have all this information right at our fingertips.

So just because more people are talking about it doesn't mean it's a trend. It's actually been around for over a hundred years and it's been, it's one of the most studied di diagnoses out there, so, mm-hmm. [00:14:00] I think that's not true, first of all. And I think the other thing too is that now you have parents who have children that are more like Gen Z is.

So aware of mental health. Yeah. Right. And they are giving, uh, the previous generations a run for our money in terms of handling and dealing with concerns that they have coming up with education and their mental health. Um, and so then what's happening is now they're getting evaluated, they're getting diagnosed, and the parents are like, wait, if that is a DH, adhd, if that is autism, if that's depress, wait, do I have that?

Oh wait, I think my mom also had that. Like now it's becoming more aware because Gen X and before we just swept things under the rug, pretend like it wasn't an issue, never went to mental health therapy. So it's not trendy, it's just being talked about more. And people are more aware and more educated. And so now people are like, oh, okay, now I get it.

And then that's why you're seeing so many more adults getting diagnosed as adults because they always had it. They just tried to [00:15:00] compensate or. Explained it away in some way. Mm-hmm. And so that's why we're seeing such a re uh, kind of a surge in a DH ADHD diagnoses in adults because I think people are realizing, oh wait, that's me.

Dr. Brighten: That's my story. Uh, it was when my son, you know, he went through his diagnosis and I was like, but that's normal. And I started explaining stuff and his psychologist is like, uh, let's talk actually friend, that this is not normal. Have you been doing this your whole life? I'm like, and I have my goodness. Um, it's also something too, whenever people are like, it's always in my feed.

I'm like, well, if the algorithm is picking up that it needs to show you this, this, you might, you might wanna ask why, because the algorithm is following your patterns and your behavior and serving stuff up. And I really think, you know, the TikTok algorithm is so good in that way that it really has shown a lot of people the information they needed to see.

And that has spurred them to then start digging into it and try to understand themselves. Now you said like, [00:16:00] you know, uh, it was a moral failing once upon a time. Now we've heard you say it's an executive dis uh, exec executive function deficit. So tell us about that. What does that mean for children with A DHD and adults with A DHD?

Dr. Lockhart: Yes, definitely. So technically it's an executive functioning dysregulation disorder and all, all that means I knew 

Dr. Brighten: I'd missing a D in there. Yes. 

Dr. Lockhart: All that basically means is that it's a dysregulation of multiple functions. So you'll see a dysregulation or like an imbalance of thoughts, emotions, uh, behaviors.

Yes. And, and then everything in between that. So you might have a kid who's dysregulated in terms of having a lot of intrusive thoughts or can't stop their thoughts. It's just firing. Firing. Or they can't move. Their hands are constantly moving, they're tapping their feet or they speak out of turn. Um, or they're, you know, hot and cold going from [00:17:00] zero to 60, you're like, what the heck sets you off?

So it's, that's just a dysregulation thing because they cannot manage or balance out the stuff that can be triggering, but it can also go deeper in terms of other things. That's why many times kids with executive functioning dysregulation disorder like a DHD, they might have issues with going to sleep at night.

They just are so wired. And then once they fall asleep, they're knocked out and they can set 10 alarms and they're not waking up. So again, but that's a dysregulation thing. Um, they may have the messiest room, backpack desk locker. That's a dysregulation thing because oftentimes they get very overwhelmed by sensory input.

Um, many times these kids, what I've found is that they wet the bed longer than what is developmentally appropriate because mm-hmm. They, again, if you're falling asleep and staying asleep so deeply and your body's like, dude, wake up, you gotta go to the bathroom. You're not getting the message. So then your bladder's like, fine, I'm just, [00:18:00] here we go.

So it, it, we're talking about dysregulation in multiple areas and also in friendships. These are kids who can maybe make friends really easy because they're the life of the party. They're active, they're outgoing, they're talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. But then maybe they don't keep friends because they say something offensive because of their impulsivity, or they're emotionally dysregulated, and so they're more sensitive to rejection or a look or someone saying something bad about them that they can't let go of because their thoughts hold onto things.

Their mind holds onto things. So that dysregulation can show up in a lot of different ways and can cause a lot of, uh, impairment in the way they function, which is what causes it to be a disorder. And when people often ask, well, lots of kids are hyper and lots of kids, um, have a a horrible focus. What makes it a DHD?

Well, it's the impairment. It's when you cannot focus to the point where you're getting failing grades or you're losing friendships, or you're constantly in [00:19:00] ha getting fights with your parents because you're so dysregulated. So when we're talking about more of the impairment, that's when we're looking at like, okay, this might be a diagnosis going on.

Dr. Brighten: Mm. And I think that's the perfect rebuttal to the statement. Everyone's just a little a DHD. Um, because certainly all of us can struggle in some capacity with executive function. Maybe we weren't modeled things when we were young. Maybe we developed less favorable habits. Um, and yet when it actually impacts your life in the negative way where it does feel like you are disabled in some capacity of being able to meet standard metrics in your life, like that's more than just a little A DHD.

Dr. Lockhart: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think when people say that, um, and I've heard that with various diagnoses, oh, we're all anxious, everybody's depressed. It's like, no. Then you don't really fully understand it. Because when I had years ago, a teenage client asked me, she was struggling with depression, and um, she's like, well, when [00:20:00] should I feel sad?

And I'm like, when sad things happen. And if you're feeling sad all the time or for no good reason, as you've, you know, mentioned that there's something else going on there. 'cause you shouldn't just be sad all the time and, and things that shouldn't just be triggering sadness just 'cause. And so I think it's the same thing when we're looking at executive functioning.

Yeah. Some of us are messy, some of us have a hard time starting things or following through and paying our taxes and paying our bills on time. But when it's causing significant impairment where your lights are being shut off and you don't know where your money is going, and now you're ending up, you know, having to move houses because your money is drained and you don't even know where that's coming in and where things are, you know that that's when we're talking about, okay, that's not just being disorganized or being bad with money.

There's a, there's a dysfunction going on there that's causing, that's impacting how you're functioning. And that's when we wanna pay attention to what interventions do we need to help you get back on track. 

Dr. Brighten: So with A DHD, we've got kind of this, the [00:21:00] baseline is dysregulation, as you've put it. Yeah. This is the state that the nervous system is set up.

What can parents do to help regulate their child? 

Dr. Lockhart: So it depends on exactly what the issue is. So as a bot, as a foundation, a DHD, there's three types. There's a DHD inattentive type, there's a DHD, hyperactive, impulsive type, and A DHD combined type. So in order to meet the criteria for the inattentive or the hyperactive impulsive, you have to meet six out of nine criteria.

And then to meet the combined is 12 outta 18. So you have to hit a lot of check marks. That's why when people are like, oh, everybody has it, you know, it's easy to get diag. No, it, it actually is a very rigorous criteria to get diagnosed. And if it's done mm-hmm. Properly, it's, it's pretty hard to get diagnosed.

Um, so you have to first identify like, what is actually going on with my kid? Which type of A DHD do they have? And then how does it show up? Like how is it [00:22:00] impacting their functioning? Because, because it is kind of like, even though it's not considered a spectrum disorder like autism, it does fall along a spectrum because not every A DHD individual looks the same.

I have met with people who have A DHD and are very well organized, get straight A's, but struggle with friendships. And then others who are like the life of the party people, everybody loves them. They do horrible in school and everything is messy within five minutes of waking up, right? So it, there is no one size fits all.

So I think you have to first identify like what kind of a DHD is going on here? What kind of dysfunction and how does it impair their functioning? And then you can determine, okay, these are the areas, these are the executive function areas that are popping up as the most concerning. And then you can be able to intervene.

So for example, if your, uh, child has issues with time management and. That's very common [00:23:00] with A DHD because they tend to operate in two time zones now, or not now. Right. So they get a project and it's due at the end of the month. So it's not due. It's not due. So I'm gonna wait until, until 

Dr. Brighten: like 

Dr. Lockhart: the night before.

Exactly. And there's the, the reasoning for a lot of that is because that time pressure is exciting. It's such a dopamine rush to like be, do, oh my gosh, it's due by midnight. I gotta turn it into my professor. And it's 1146, you know, and then it, it's like that time pressure and that can feel really exciting.

And then the crash, but it's also not sustainable because then are you really learning anything and then they're exhausted. It's impacting their sleep, which impacts your executive functioning and then your mood. So it disregulates everything else. So if they have issues with time management, for example.

Then you wanna look at, okay, what exactly is the issue? Maybe they're thinking like, okay, well it's, it's just not due [00:24:00] now. Okay, so then teach them. That could be done through body doubling, teaching them, okay, when you have something due in 30 days, then create smaller deadlines for yourself. Ideally, it would be great if the teacher, the professor, did that, but creating ideal, ideally creating smaller deadlines for yourself.

So by the end of the week, I want to have researched five articles and written five note cards. And then even more than that, every day I wanna read this many things when, you know, my kids have books to read during the summer, instead of thinking, oh, well I have all summer. No, no, no, you got 200 pages, you have this many weeks.

This is, you know, read 20 pages a day. Like literally break it down. So that way what you're doing is you're helping them prioritize what they need to get done, and then you're helping them see time more concretely, because time is very abstract. And for most young people, they don't get it. Time doesn't make sense.

It just seems like it's this infinite amount of [00:25:00] time. Um, and so if you can really break it down into smaller chunks, that could be helpful. Same thing with cleaning the room, rather than like, oh, it's this big mess. Then maybe chunking it and saying, okay, we're gonna spend 15 minutes cleaning your room.

I'll get the books, you get the dirty laundry, I'll get the clean laundry, you get the Legos, like you're literally chunking it and breaking it down into sections. So whenever you can chunk things down, whether it's by time or by items or by priorities, those can be really, really helpful. And so what you're basically just looking at, okay, like where are the areas that they struggle with the most?

And then what skill can I help them develop in that particular area? And that's the most helpful. 'cause it's, it's a skill, executive function skills, and so we have to teach it to 'em. And it's, it's, it's exhausting. And that's why parents feel like they're being the executive, the frontal lobe for the entire family.

Because you want to not take on everything. You want to be able to give them the skill and the only way to let go of that frontal low burden [00:26:00] is by giving them the skill. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. I was. I already graduated medical school into my thirties. The first time I heard reverse engineer it, which is a like, was like, I think I was at an online marketing conference and they were like, whatever your goal is, reverse engineer it and work backwards.

And they, and they went through all of that and I'm like, my mind was blown. And I'm like, at what point in my elementary school, my grammar school could, they have offered me this and it would've changed my entire life to be able to do that? Because what you just said of like, what is the goal now? Break it down into chunks.

Most adults don't even know that, that that is the tool that can help us. And so I think this is something too that like when you are a neurodivergent parent, you actually get to learn so much by helping your child. However, we know that emotional dysregulation can be a big part of the picture for A DHD.[00:27:00] 

What can parents do if they're already dysregulated? If the parent also has a DHD and they're like, wait, emotional reg dysregulation, like, same, same is happening in my household. 

Dr. Lockhart: Yeah, that's an excellent question. And that is, um, one of the key factors that have been missing from our diagnostic manual is we are looking at attention, we're looking at hyperactivity and impulsivity.

Like, what about the emotion piece? And that tends to be a really big thing for lots of parents and kids and in the classroom because of their emotional dysregulation. And so I think, um, there, there's a few things. One is I tell parents a lot what I'm doing, parent coaching is when you're being triggered, you have to first ask yourself, okay, first, like, why am I being triggered?

Because sometimes your kid is doing the exact same thing and you're not being triggered. Yeah. Right. So it's not necessarily their behavior or their attitude like. There's something else. So why am I being triggered? [00:28:00] And then the second thing is like, what are my unmet needs? 

Dr. Brighten: Hmm. 

Dr. Lockhart: Because maybe you feel like you're shouldering the whole burden.

Maybe you haven't eaten and you're hangry, maybe you're tired, maybe you've been touched out for the day. Like you're just, you're done. Like, what exactly is going on? Because there's times when the kids might be screaming and yelling and singing songs and you're like, oh, this is so funny. And you're rocking it out with them.

And then other times you're so irritated and you're yelling, so like, like, the behavior hasn't changed, so why are you being triggered? So I think we have to be honest with ourselves, like, what's going on? 'cause we're so quick to blame our kids for our dysregulation when um, maybe it has nothing to do with them.

And it's all about you. And it's not about putting parent shame and guilt on yourself, but it's about being honest and identifying what's really happening and what's really going on in this situation. And then I think the other part, uh, the very important part too is telling yourself that kids are immature.

Like, I remember telling this [00:29:00] to a parent one time and they're like, yeah, but he's really smart. I'm like, he's nine, he's immature. So to act like a dinosaur at the dining room table, that's, that's what kids do. They're immature. Mm-hmm. And so I think we also have to remember like, kids don't have to be mature.

They don't have to grow up. They don't have to be something that we think they need to be like, let them be kids. And I think sometimes when we take them out of that role in that box, then we make life less fun for them and we make it more miserable for us. Um, and then I think a big part then is regulating your nervous system, taking a breath.

Calming yourself down, going for a walk, drinking cold water, eating something sour, exercising and stretching your body, talking to a friend. Like how, what way does your nervous system need to be regulated? Does it need to be physically kind of more balanced? Does it need to be kind of emotionally, socially, more connected to somebody else?

Do you need a break? [00:30:00] And, and really give yourself, give your body what it needs in that moment as well too. Um, and then that way when we're equipped then that, when, then we can co-regulate and co-regulating is basically you're lending your calm to your children. Mm-hmm. You can't do that if you're depleted.

If you are, you've got zero balance at the bank. You're not, you can't lend any money to anybody. And if you are depleted, you certainly cannot do that for your kids. So I think it's also about making sure that you are equipped, you have the support, you have the rest, you have the food, um, you are telling yourself the right messages, and then you can then show up for your kids in the right way.

How 

Dr. Brighten: does, how does drinking something cold or eating something sour help? 

Dr. Lockhart: Yeah, I, I've heard this and it's funny, I've, we've tried this several times with people with, um, anxiety as well as a DHD since they look very similar and can show up very similarly. And it's something with the cold water, sucking on ice, eating something sour, it like dis [00:31:00] disrupts something in the brain, um, where people, it just, it 'cause you're eating something sour and now you're like, and it, it's something about the regulation.

I don't quite know the science behind it, but it seems to work really well. And I've had it many times with people who've been having like panic or uh, anxious or intrusive thoughts or feeling on edge. Mm-hmm. And just drinking something cold or eating something sour tends to kind of disrupt that pattern for some reason.

I'm not really sure of the science behind it. I have to look that part up. 

Dr. Brighten: I know that when you are having anxiety or you're feeling dysregulated in your nervous system, one tip that we always tell people is get present. Notice your surroundings. Like what do you see? What do you hear? What are you feeling?

And it like, when you said that, I was like, that is a really fast way to get present. Like if you think about eating something sour or a shock to your system, you're like, I am here. I am present. That's 

Dr. Lockhart: a great point. I love that. And that is, yeah, because if you're like, Ooh, I feel it right here, then yeah, you're now noticing what your tongue is feeling, what [00:32:00] you're, what you're smelling, what you're, you know, the temperature of your mouth, um, cooling down your body.

'cause then your blood pressure will tend to go up when you're also feeling heated or dysregulated. So, you know, it's a really great grounding technique, which is what we are often teaching people when they're dysregulated. So, you know, what do you see here? Smell, taste, feel, and you know, your body against the chair, your feet on the floor.

Um, it's a really great way to get present. So yeah, I think that's probably one of the biggest reasons why it helps. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah, I wanna talk about tantrums 'cause I feel like it's in the same vein here. And we have all been in the store, I swear it's always the grocery right? Always. Um, we've all been in the store, the toddler starts to meltdown.

Sometimes it could even be your preteens starting to meltdown, and that can look a little bit differently. But what can parents do in the moment when the tantrum has arrived? 

Dr. Lockhart: Yes. So for me, I, the way I conceptualize it is I look at is there a meltdown or is there a tantrum? And, and I, we, I think we use those words, uh, interchangeably and [00:33:00] they're, they're different.

So meltdowns, uh, are more like a, um, nervous system dysregulation issue. It's like having a panic attack. It's what happens when someone might get overheated or over hungry overtired. And many times a meltdown is like this volcanic eruption. It's like this earthquake that's happening. So your kids, it's like a 

Dr. Brighten: very extreme fight or flight sensation.

Dr. Lockhart: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So the seams in my socks are bothering me. They're elastic on my underwear. It's too hot, it's too cold, I'm too tired. And then they ask for something and you say no. And then now they're having a meltdown in the grocery store. And it's not because they want something, but it's because their system is dysregulated in some way.

And that's why many times you'll see a kid have a meltdown and then, then they're fine after a few minutes and then they like wanna hug you and you're like, what? Are you kidding me? Like you, you just embarrassed me in the store and you disrupted this whole grocery shopping trip. Because now they feel better because now their system is evened out and balanced out.

For tantrums, [00:34:00] it's often in reaction to a demand or a request that gets denied in some way. I wanna go out with my friends, give me my, gimme some chocolate, I want dessert for dinner, whatever it is. And you say, no, they don't get what they want. And now they're looking, they're tantruming now, basically. Um, and with tantrums, tantrums are developmentally appropriate for toddlers.

Mm-hmm. Toddlers are supposed to have tantrums. I think it's like 70% of toddlers have tantrums. Like it is a normal thing. Highly irritating and very normal. 

Dr. Brighten: You hear that everyone? It's annoying and normal 

Dr. Lockhart: and normal. And the thing is that most tantrums should last between 10 to 20 minutes. Typically, it feels like it lasts forever, but that is a normal range of time.

And so, so the goal with meltdowns is there's really not much you can do. Unfortunately, that's the bad news, because if it's a nervous system dysregulation thing, unless you're removing the trigger, like if they're hot, you, you know, [00:35:00] get 'em cool, like with the cold water, or if they're hungry, get them a snack, right?

So if you can, if you meet the need before the meltdown happens, then you're golden. But once the meltdown happens and they're in full force, any amount of talking or soothing, or you know, better bud, that's just gonna make them go nuclear and it's not gonna be helpful. And it's really just riding the wave, unfortunately.

So you're literally sitting in the freezer section of the grocery store and you're letting them just mop up the floor with their body while you keep them within your eye view, and you keep shopping in that area, or you choose to leave, like mm-hmm. You kind of have to let it right out. Mm-hmm. Yeah, with the tantrums, it's really best to prepare in advance.

We're going to the grocery store, we're gonna get what's on the list. If you wanna get snacks, we can add two to the list, or we're just gonna go and we're not getting any, any cookies. This, whatever it is, you prepare them for what it is they want. If they see something in the candy aisle or toys, you're like, well, we'll take a picture of it and we can hold onto it for, you [00:36:00] know, you know, the holidays or your birthday or whatever it is.

Uh, and you prepare them in advance and you let them know that if you start to whine, if you start to have a tantrum, then we will leave the store, or I will put you in the shopping cart, or I will put you in the stroller. Like you just have, give them expectations in terms of what's gonna happen. Um, in some cases you might just need to leave, although it's highly inconvenient.

Um, other times then you just find ways to kind of move through it, knowing that it won't last that long. Or they're in the shopping cart while they're screaming and you just let 'em keep screaming. While you don't engage over engaging is what helps. It's, it's what makes it last longer than it should. And so you don't wanna overage, I mean, it's not, you're not like actively completely ignoring your child, but you don't want to overage them in terms of giving into what's happening.

Because giving into the tantrum in terms of the demand, just reinforces it. So if you're like, fine, here's the candy, just be quiet. Now they've learned, oh, got it. When I scream for seven minutes and 50 seconds and you know, [00:37:00] this big store, then I get what I want. Got it. We don't wanna, we don't wanna reinforce the wrong behavior.

Dr. Brighten: I feel like there is a particular challenge of being a parent in the United States. I have traveled, so for everybody listening, I have a three-year-old and a 12-year-old. So I am between toddler tantrums and preteen meltdown. Sometimes they're meltdowns. Um, it's like a very good like learning experience and it's a very big challenge of like, have you, have you done your meditation?

Have you tended to your sleep? Like me? Have I taken care of business at home in my own body to be able to show up for them? But I have traveled to many countries with them, and people hold space for children to be children. So I have noticed that, you know, even on airlines, if I, if the airplane is full of mostly people from the United States, we're gonna be treated differently.

And same with like restaurants like Spain, everybody's baby and children are at restaurants with them. But I, I see this as such a challenge [00:38:00] because I feel like as a parent in the United States. There's a propensity to judge super quickly that if your child is having a tantrum, if they're having a meltdown, which we've heard these things are normal, normal, developmental, or normal in certain situations, given the context, but there's this judgment, like your bad parent, stop letting your child inconvenient, other adults, and almost as if children don't belong in a space, and if they're there, they must adult up in that moment.

I mean, I'd just be curious what your thoughts, what your perspective is. 

Dr. Lockhart: Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, I've, I've heard, I remember when I, my daughter and I traveled to Switzerland last year with some other pe uh, women in their family, and, um, it, it was so. It was so noticeable. People, first of all, being very, very active compared to what I see a lot of times in the states.

Walking and biking everywhere and um, and children everywhere. And I didn't see any, we were there two weeks and I never came across any children [00:39:00] tantruming or anything. And it was multiple environments, multiple cities. I never, it's like kids were accepted and just loved and showed up where they were, and I didn't really see any, like kids running away, acting up, screaming, like, none of that.

I'm like, well, this is really odd. Really, really odd. There, there's, I never experienced that in the United States. When I go different places, I'm always hearing a kid screaming and someone yelling at their kid and just a different parent child dynamic. And I'm not quite sure why that is. What, what the view of people in other places.

Have of children versus the view that we have being so advanced in so many other areas. Like, why do we see kids in this way? And, and a lot of times I see kids the way that kids are viewed in the United States, um, are very much like Adultified. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, like you should know better. Um, or you should be more mature or make good decisions that you can't ever [00:40:00] mess up.

You can't have a bad day. And Yeah. But yet, but yet parents can, yet, adults can. And my, my kids are 12 and 14 and we just had a conversation about this yesterday when they had a substitute teacher and they were like, she was just so rude to us and saying such mean things to us and just so inappropriate.

And as a class, they went to the principal and told the principal about it. And he was like, you know, that's disrespectful. Don't do that. You don't call out grownups like that. And I'm like, yeah, you do. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, you call out bad 

Dr. Brighten: behavior, right? Of course 

Dr. Lockhart: you do. And so I'm just like, what, what is it that we, we kind of protect adult behavior when they're acting up, you know, having their own little adult temper tantrum.

But yet kids stand up for themselves in terms of how they, they deserve to be treated and yet they're being disrespectful. And so I don't, I don't quite know what that's about, and I just think that's kind of messed up. And we have that discussion all the time. I'm like, yeah, you're right. Like an adult should be speaking to you respectfully.

And I, when I talk to parents about [00:41:00] speaking to their kids in respectful ways, don't cuss at your kid. Don't yell at them. Don't hit them. Um, and they're like, wow. But they cussed at me. 

Dr. Brighten: So yeah. How would they learn it? Oh man. Right. 

Dr. Lockhart: And so it's like 

Dr. Brighten: there, there're literal mirrors walking around our house, but then absolutely.

Definitely had that mere moment of, of shock and awe of like, oh my God, that's me. It's me. Absolutely. 

Dr. Lockhart: Absolutely. And I, but I feel like many times parents are like, well, that's not fair. It's not fair that they get to be this way with us and we have to show higher ground. I was like, what? Yes. This is an argument 

Dr. Brighten: my 12-year-old makes with me right now.

That's not fair. That's not fair. I'm like, yes, some dynamics are not fair. It's the reality that you live in. But I hear, 

Dr. Lockhart: and I hear that from adults as well too, that they think that it's not fair that I have to show up better than my kid does. It's not fair that they get to get away with this. And I'm like, 

Dr. Brighten: mm-hmm.

That's not, 

Dr. Lockhart: that's, yeah, 

Dr. Brighten: like that is, I like, I just want anyone listening, this is not to stereotype boomers, but of that generation, [00:42:00] that's what boomers were taught, and so that's been that trickle down of like, you respect your elders no matter what. I think we're seeing like a, a big shift. I mean, certainly in our children they're definitely shifting, but it's just so interesting because in other countries.

They see children as children, but as valued members of society and humans. And it's almost like in the United States, um, I mean, you know, there's always the like armchair experts on the internet who usually don't have children telling you the way that children should behave, how you should parent. Um, and quite often we still hear you just need to spank them.

That's a child who's not being spanked. What do we know about spanking and what it actually does to the brain? 

Dr. Lockhart: Yes, yes. Um, that this is an unnecessarily controversial topic, 

Dr. Brighten: unnecessarily. I cannot, I 

Dr. Lockhart: cannot, I cannot believe that we have to justify why hitting a child. 'cause that's basically what it is, that hitting a child is okay.

And in. [00:43:00] I think that a, a lot of what people believe is that that's the way you're supposed to correct behavior. If you don't correct it through pain, how else will they learn? And so it's been justified. I mean, like, like you said, in previous generations, spanking was the way to parent a child, um, in, uh, gen X.

That's a lot of how, which is what I'm part of. Like a lot of that's how people. Learned. It's not till very recently. Do people, have they heard more of the research in terms of No spanking is damaging. It creates kids who have more dysregulation. It can, um, bring about more oppositional and defiant behavior.

It damages the connection and the relationship and the attachment between a child and a parent because a child starts to associate the parent with pain. Um, it sometimes for some kids, depending on their personality, it actually drives more secretive behavior because then they just learned how not to, how to get away with the thing rather than to be busted.

So it's just not helpful and what some parents [00:44:00] do sometimes, then. Is they abandon the spanking and they just replace it with yelling. And it's the same thing. It's just, you know, and I, when I meet with teenagers, for example, in therapy, a lot of they are disturbed by their parents yelling. It's, it's painful for them to hear their parents yelling at them.

Dr. Brighten: Hmm. And 

Dr. Lockhart: always feeling like they're messing up all the time and that I can't do anything. Right. And what I, what I hear is that parents is like, well if they, if I'm not yelling at them, then they don't hear me, or they're not learning anything. And going back again to this nervous system issue, when our nervous system is in fight, flight, freeze, or fawn and we are under threat, like with being hit or being yelled at.

Mm-hmm. Or being punished in some way. No learning is occurring anyway 'cause we're in survival mode. So the teachable moment that you think you're getting, uh, bringing about with your kid because you're doing this really intense way of punishing, they're actually not learning anything because they're just in protection mode.

They want to prove how right they are, how wrong you are, [00:45:00] or they're just so hurt and scared by you that they're gonna go along with whatever you say. But no learning is actually occurring. The learning is occurring through the gentle connection and through the relationship. So lemme give you a quick example.

Years ago, my um, son, um, he was having struggles with telling time and he was in the afterschool program and he had a worksheet where they had to write out the time. So after I picked him up, I went over his homework with him at home and everything was like a hundred percent correct. And I was like, oh, you did you get help doing this?

And he was like, uh, no. And I was like, you did this on your own. And he is like, yeah. And, and then every time I asked a question, I was like, wait is like, the answer was changing. I'm like, this is shady. So I'm like, did someone really help you or did you copy someone else's work? And he was like, I copied someone else's work.

And I was like, oh, I totally get it. You cheated. And he was like, mm-hmm. [00:46:00] Yeah. I was like, oh yeah, I used to cheat too when I was your age. And he was like, what mom? And I'm like, yeah, because it's easy. It's easy to cheat, it's easy to look at someone else's work because it's hard. Right. You don't, you can't figure out how to tell time.

Just shortcut. It makes sense to me. Yeah. And he was like, okay. And I'm like, but what's the problem with that? And he's like, I still dunno how to tell time. I'm like, exactly. And I said, so what we're gonna do is we're gonna erase everything and we're gonna go through each step and we're gonna figure out how, what is the best way?

Some hacks for you to figure out how to tell time and let's just do it together. And that was it. And I remember posting that on, on, uh, Instagram years ago when this happened. And people were like. And then what Did you take away his tv or did you punish him or did you spank him? I was like, for what? Like the lesson has been learned.

Like what am I trying to teach him? I'm trying to teach him that, that you don't need to cheat to get ahead. That mom is going to understand when you do, because mistakes happen that he needs to learn how [00:47:00] to tell time. That's the real lesson that I need to teach him. So what is taking away time or grounding him or you can't see friends, like what is that gonna do?

That's not gonna do anything. It's just gonna make him angry. It's going to create more of a burden for me. 'cause now I have more of a mental load to make sure that he's not watching or whatever, not sneaking. And what does that do? Like what's the purpose in taking things away? And what we really wanna do is, I think people forget that we're trying to, uh, discipline and discipline is to teach.

It's to impart wisdom on not to punish. Discipline and punishment are completely different things. Mm-hmm. Punishment is to make something as painful as possible so they don't repeat it like a speeding ticket in prison and that those things don't work too well. We already see that. Yeah. Right. What we wanna do is teach, we wanna teach the child to do or make better decisions and most importantly to know they can always go to their parent even when they mess up that.

Mm-hmm. The parent is a safe place to go to even when they screw up. That's the bigger lesson. So my kids are crazy, [00:48:00] like honest with me about a lot of things and I'm like, wow. Like they tell me about all their friends stuff about what's going on because they know I don't freak out about stuff. I was not that like good goody shoe of a kid.

I did a lot of sneaky things in my day. I get it, I get it. Kids are sneaky. Kids don't make good decisions, but I think we have to make sure that we're. Teaching the right thing, so they're not going down the path of I need to avoid pain and punishment as much as possible, which is why the spanking and yelling just don't work.

We need to make sure we're connecting and having a relationship with our kid. That's what makes the difference. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. I never, I learned young, I, I stopped sharing everything with my parents. I was never honest with them, and that is something that. I ha my husband and I have always been on the same page about, of like, big mistakes are going to happen.

And I never want my kid to say, oh my God, don't tell my mom she's going to kill me. I want him to say I'm in trouble. I need to call my mom right now because they make mistakes. And when they make the mistake, I want them to know that like I'm gonna have [00:49:00] their back. That doesn't mean there won't be consequences.

Like that's the unfortunate reality. We live with consequences, but it is so, so important that we build that trust with them. You brought up taking things away. That's a common go-to. So if you don't spank, if you don't yell, it is revoking access to things or removing objects, items, or not allowing them to, you know, have time with their friends.

How effective is that really? And what could we be doing instead? 

Dr. Lockhart: Not at all. It's not effective because, not effective. Zero outta 10 friends. It's not, it's, it's really not. Um, so this is my go-to is. As a parent and as a professional, that when a kid makes a decision, whatever it is, especially poor decisions, we have to ask ourself what is the real need or the real purpose behind that behavior, right?

Mm-hmm. So the cheating on his worksheet was because he didn't feel confident about his skills to get it done. That was the purpose. It wasn't to be deceptive, it was to just get it done. When a kid, um, is on their phone, you know, after midnight with their [00:50:00] friends, well, the purpose is to feel connected in some way, to, um, maybe feel like they're on their own independent person.

There's a million reasons why kids do what they do, right? So we wanna ask our ourself when our, when our kid or a teen does something, what is the purpose? What is the, the thing, the need driving the behavior? And then we have to meet that need first, like the understanding or the connection or the relationship, whatever it is.

And then we determine what needs to happen to correct that or to help build them up so that they don't continue to make the same mistake. So, um, so for example, if my kid isn't doing their laundry and cleaning their room, it would be really easy to be like, you know, no TV for a week. Okay. They're still not cleaning the room or doing the laundry, right?

What is the real issue? Well, maybe they feel overwhelmed by the mess. Mm-hmm. Maybe they don't know where to start. Maybe they feel depressed. Maybe they [00:51:00] got into a fight with their friend and they're really feeling down 'cause they feel lonely at school. Like, there's so many reasons and when we're so busy trying to get at the thing that we see on the surface, then we're missing out on it.

So instead of punishing them by taking away their phone or no friends for a week, then you can do the potty doubling and then teach them how to clean their room, teach them how to do the laundry, make it fun and enjoyable. Um, instead of taking away their phone because they were sneaking after midnight for really, that could be, and it's maybe it's not a punishment, but it's a consequence to their behavior so that you have parental controls so that even if their phone is by their side, like for my kids, they have phones, but I have parental controls where the phone shuts off at a certain time and wakes up at a certain time.

Mm-hmm. So like then, yeah, the phone is a temptation. It is for adults as well too. Well, don't let your kids sleep with the phone by their bedside. It's going to be a temptation. Right. So then instead of it being a punishment, then teach them how to manage their time. And you might have to be the frontal lobe for them in that way by having a [00:52:00] parental control where the phone shuts off and turns on at a certain time and or certain parameters in terms of how much time they have on their phone.

So I think we have to be more creative. Than taking things away, because I've seen cases where kids are, um, everything gets taken away and they don't care. 

Dr. Brighten: They 

Dr. Lockhart: do not care. They'll absolutely disconnect. They dis right? And, and they find other ways they hack into the neighbor's wifi or they act like they don't care about all the things that were taken away.

So now parent is like, okay, well what else do I take away? I don't have anything left to take. Mm-hmm. I'm like, yeah, that wasn't very effective. So yeah, let's be more creative. So yeah, the taking away thing, unless it's serving a true purpose, um, it, it, it's really, it's not really getting to the real core issue and you're not really teaching any skill at all.

And then they're just gonna get more secretive and, um, it creates more of a disconnection. 

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And for everybody listening, I just want you to know that, um, if you've yelled, I definitely have [00:53:00] yelled at my ditto child last week. He locked me out of my bedroom and I had to be in an appointment in 20 minutes.

And he was, he locked the bedroom door and decided to use my shower, and then I couldn't get ready. And by the time that got open, I was like, I'm so late. And forget why, because I was in a panic about my time commitments and, and all, and all of that. I've, we've also done the slippery slope of like, fine.

Like, we're just gonna take this thing away. And then we're like, that's does, that doesn't work. It's not working. So I just, if anybody has done these things, I just want you to know Me too. Me too. And it is definitely something that I think, you know, we can undo and like, when is the best time to start new behavior?

It's right now as you learn and knowing that you won't get it Perfect. I am curious though, 'cause I think some people will hear this and be like, wow. I yell at my child, it puts 'em in a flight and you know, fight, flight, freeze fawn. So they're in sympathetic overdrive. They're in panic. This is like, you know, very primal.

[00:54:00] Must battle an enemy mode of your nervous system. How do you walk it back after that? So you just blew up on your child? Like, what can be done? Because mistakes are made, we're not perfect. 

Dr. Lockhart: Absolutely. And we're not talking about perfect parenting here 'cause that's not the goal at all. At all. 'cause we've all messed up.

I it, it's funny 'cause my husband will, there will be times when we're dealing with something with our kids and he's like, what should I, what should we do? And I'm like, I don't know. And he's like, don't you do this for a living? And I was like, oh yeah, that's right. 

Dr. Brighten: Like, it's so much easier though when you're like, look, if my child gets like injured, like I can figure that out and, and not a problem.

But in my own body mm-hmm. If something's coming up, it's like it takes my husband saying things back to me that I'm like, oh wait, wait, wait. Right. I know this puzzle. Yes, I know how to do this 

Dr. Lockhart: well. And I tell parents that parenting so much of parenting is not intuitive. And like our natural reaction is out of alignment with how we should respond.

Like how we should respond. Doesn't always feel normal or natural, so don't beat yourself up over that. I have to then take several steps back before I know how to respond properly. As a [00:55:00] parent as well too, it's easy to tell other people what to do. It's much harder to do it yourself, right? So what I think is we wanna make sure that we're not in, um, this perfect parenting mode.

And the most important thing is to repair the repair. And the reset is so important, especially because so many of us, when we were kids, we didn't get that. We were always to blame. We were the reason why our parents were angry. You made me yell. It's all these different comments that we get, right? And so I think the repair and the reconnection and taking ownership is super important so that you basically tell your kid, wow, I was really yelling out of my mind just then right when I got locked out of the room.

I was in total panic because I didn't know what else to do and I had a big appointment and I yelled, and I am very sorry for yelling. I'm very, very sorry that was inappropriate and I would not have expected you to do the same at, at all. Um, so please forgive me. And so you [00:56:00] basically own it in terms of what you did, how you reacted, and instead what I should have done was, and then just saying what you could have done.

Because then again, what that's doing is that it's teaching and modeling. I am imperfect. I mess up just like you do and what I could have done and what I will work on doing for the future is blank. Mm-hmm. And so then you're again modeling that there are other ways and other alternatives to responding to a stressful situation.

It is normal to feel stressed when something is stressful. Yeah. And, but then I think the. Taking the ownership of it, repairing it, um, and then resetting, Hey, can we start over? Can we reset? Um, so those, those are very important because we're gonna mess up and I think parents need to remember that, that we're gonna mess up.

And, and the biggest gift you can give to your kid is to like, yeah, I mess up too, just like you do. And here's my apology, here's my ownership. Let's move forward. So that way you're not stewing in it or, um, [00:57:00] projecting and pushing on the blame to them for the way you feel. 'cause then we don't want this enmeshed relationship where you made me feel this way.

That we're, we don't want that. We don't want that. 

Dr. Brighten: We also, this is something I, because I have two boys, I take very, very seriously like raising future men to be emotionally intelligent, to know, to take accountability. Because I think that, I mean, there's the, like I think most of my listeners are women, so they know how society has treated women, but there's also a way that they have fostered men that now women are like, you know, that behavior is the ick and like this, you know, these are men behaving badly on the internet.

And I think so much about the upstream parenting and how things could have done, been done differently, and that I. Whole piece right there of like when you mess up, you take accountability, you take ownership, and then you speak through what you could have done differently. I think we have to hold space for people to recognize their mistakes and to be able to correct that.

And I think part [00:58:00] of how we change that in society is, is how we are parenting now. We're no pressure guys. We're literally raising the future generations of our species. So no pressure there. I wanna talk about them. This repair in the context of what children face at school or with other adults. So this happens a lot with a DHD children that their behavior or maybe their academic performance gets really cruelly criticized and that impacts their self-esteem.

What can parents do to help foster more confidence and to help with repairing that? 

Dr. Lockhart: Yeah, that's such a great question. Uh, I think a lot of that comes with really building them up because I don't know the exact stats, but I do know that statistically children with A DHD receive more negative comments than other children.

And so we really want to make sure, and, and what what that does is that then it creates this internal [00:59:00] narrative that they play in their head. So then by the time they mess up, which they think is all the time, that's why the punishment thing doesn't even work. 'cause they've been punishing themselves all day anyway.

Yes. Right. Yes. So, um, and a lot of what we haven't mentioned yet is this to, um, term coined by Dr. William Dotson with this rejection sensitive dysphoria. And it's not, RSD is not a diagnosis, but it is a phenomenon that he has noticed in over like 99% of people with a DHD. And rejection sensitive dysphoria is this perception that, um, I'm flawed or I've made a mistake in some way.

It's like this kind of internalization or externalizing of this guilt, this shame, this burden that I am to other people, that I'm not good enough, that I have to, people please, whatever it is. And so I think that we really need to build them up because they're such at risk for rejection sensitivity, for anxiety for depression.[01:00:00] 

They're much more at risk for those kinds of things. So I think really having a really good foundation to build them up, to really build up their confidence to building up their resilience and grit so that when things happen, like a bad score on a test or a relationship that has ended, that we help them, we empathize with them.

We don't say, well, I told you so, or if you should have done, if you had done this. Like, we really build them up, like hearing what they've gone through, what they're struggling with, and then helping them problem solve, which is an executive function skill, helping them problem solve to, okay, these are the things that are, that happened.

What do you think, um, you could do differently next time to prepare for the test to keep that kind of friend to know when you have a good friend or not. And I think it's a really about building them up. So whatever, whether it's a teacher interaction, a grade, a failure, a perceived failure, I think we have to be very empathetic and very focused on building them up versus tearing them [01:01:00] down.

The tearing them down is the punishment, the spanking, the yelling, the taking things away. That doesn't help. They're already doing all of that punishment already. So we wanna really build them up and help them, um, be equipped for when things happen that's out of their control. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. If a parent suspects their child is struggling with RSD, what can they do about that?

Dr. Lockhart: I think a lot of that is, is identifying it, educating them on it. Just saying, Hey. Mm-hmm. You know, one of the things that I've learned about that people often struggle with when they have a DHD is a sensitivity to rejection, and this is what it looks like. You know, it looks like when people correct you or you make a mistake that you, you take it all in and think, I'm the worst person.

I'm a loser. I'm so stupid. Like, does that sound familiar? And really, and helping to identify it. I find that whenever you educate people, especially kids on a struggle, and you name it and you put words to it, it's so empowering because then they realize that it's [01:02:00] not just them. That this is a phenomenon that occurs that I'm not a freak of nature.

And that sometimes just labeling it and naming it can be very empowering. So then you can say, so when you start to have those messages that are going on in your head, let's come up with some affirmations or mantras or a verse or a song or whatever that you can use to battle that. Mm-hmm. And do something.

And basically taking opposite action against it. And so I think we have to educate them, identify it, and then give them a tool to like, okay, I can say that's the story I'm telling myself. The story that I'm telling myself is like, oh, I got a C in this class. The story I'm telling myself is I'm stupid and everybody else is smarter than me when no, everybody else did really poorly, or I didn't study well enough, or, I don't really know how the teacher does this and how they create their tests.

Or maybe I need to have a study group, or maybe I need to study a little bit every day. I need to have a better study habits. Like mm-hmm. [01:03:00] Change the story that you tell yourself and practice that with them. You wanna mm-hmm. That's again, that skill building though. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Yeah. So you brought up anxiety. How does a parent differentiate between anxiety and normal childhood worries?

Dr. Lockhart: The big, um, marker, just like I said earlier with the attention thing, is if it causes significant impairment on the way they function. Because worry and, um, feeling kind of, uh, on edge about something. I mean, we are supposed to feel worried about scary things, right? Mm-hmm. Um, it, uh, whether it's like specifically about bugs or about heights or about flying or things that maybe make you feel a little bit anxious or worried, but when you have an anxiety disorder, it's causing a significant impact on your functioning.

You're having a complete meltdown at the terminal and you refuse to get on the plane and you're like scratching and clawing. That may be more than just anxiety. That's like a significant [01:04:00] impairment because of the significant phobia that's going on. Um, or that you can't go to sleep at night 'cause you have such a phobia that you can be murdered in the middle of the night.

Like it's, it's really impacting the way you function and show up. You can't go to school at all because you have such a social phobia. Um, so it's, it's, it's when it's causing a significant impact on the way the child shows up, that's when you're looking more of a disorder. And it's not just a normal worry.

Dr. Brighten: And are there tools that parents can provide their children with to help them cope with anxiety? 

Dr. Lockhart: Yeah, usually what I always suggest is there are, uh, four different areas that where you should address anxiety. 'cause for most people it shows up in one or two areas, sometimes in all four. Um, but it's where you have the physical anxiety, so how they're, um, what's happening in their body.

So maybe they're sweating their press, blood pressures is skyrocketing, their heart rate is beating, they feel like they're gonna pass out dizzy, maybe a stomach ache, throwing up headaches, any [01:05:00] anything like physical where you might go see a doctor for. And a, and a lot of anxiety cases actually, uh, tend to go see their gastroenterologist.

There tends to be a lot of, mm-hmm. It tends to be a lot IBS diagnosis. Yes. IBS, so a lot of IBS and gi, stomach pain, stomach cramps, really more than not, it's actually anxiety and it has nothing to do with the organic or medical issue. Um, then you have the behavioral anxiety and behavioral anxiety are things that maybe the kid doesn't notice but other people do, so that they're like maybe wearing dark clothing or, um, hold up in their room and detached from other people.

They're isolating. It's a lot of behaviors that are more like procrastination. Procrastination is a big anxiety, uh, cue because, um, they're often afraid of failing. So then they get into this perfectionism, procrastination, anxiety cycle because if I don't start, then I can't fail. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Right. 

Dr. Lockhart: Then you have the [01:06:00] emotional anxiety, which is the irritability, the agitation, the tearfulness, and then the, um, cognitive anxiety, which are like the intrusive thoughts, the doom and gloom, catastrophe.

Nothing good ever happens to me. So you want to address like, where is it showing up for your kid and then giving them the tools based on that. So if it's physical anxiety, it's like the typical like deep breathing, muscle relaxation, tense tension kind of, um, things that you can do. Um, calm apps, the drinking, the water, eating something sour, going for a walk, exercising, all of those things are very good for it.

Um, or if it's like the cognitive anxiety you wanna do, like the mantras, the affirmations, the bible verse, prayers, um, poems, songs, any of those kinds of things, the things that I am good enough, this is what my brain is telling me. So you really wanted to just kind of pinpoint like where is the anxiety showing up?

And then you're giving them tools based on that. Because if they have, uh, cognitive anxiety and it's a lot of intrusive [01:07:00] thoughts and you're teaching them deep breathing mm-hmm. That's not probably gonna work. 'cause they're gonna be breathing. Yeah. And then still like worrying. So you wanna be able to, uh, uh, address it from the area where the anxiety is showing up.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. I'm curious, how does unaddressed anxiety in children show up as they transition to being a teen or even into an adult? 

Dr. Lockhart: Um, the thing about anxiety, it's extremely common, but it is not something that goes away with time. It gets worse. It gets worse with time. And because what we've been talking about this whole time, about we about skill building, it's because we pr we get better at the thing we practice.

Right? And that's good or bad. And that's how habits are formed. So if you practice for many years, that avoidance. Works for me. Well, every time I have to do a presentation, I just don't go to school. Every time I have to do blank. I just, I'm sick now I'm throwing up whatever it is. Like [01:08:00] your body starts to develop the habit of avoidance, which then feeds anxiety and avoidance feeds anxiety.

And so over time what happens is that you have this anxiety that's hard to treat, that doesn't wanna go away, that is resistant to treatment. And it starts to morph into other things like people pleasing, like, um, um, just being isolated, being alone, being loner, not taking risks, uh, can morph into like more severe anxiety.

'cause anxiety tends to get worse with time. And it starts to be like, maybe you just had a fear of public speaking, now you're afraid of people. Now you're afraid of going out. Now you're afraid of driving. Like it starts to get bigger and bigger. And it can also move into then depression because what's wrong with me that I can't even do things that normal people can do.

Yeah. So, um, so anxiety is one of those things that you need to not let it sit because it's not gonna get better with time because you're practicing the wrong thing and that thing gets, you get better at being [01:09:00] anxious, honestly. And that's what's happening. So you definitely, if you're seeing it in your kid or your teen, you wanna make sure they get the help that they need to learn the skills.

'cause it's one of the most studied diagnoses out there and it's, it is very treatable. Uh, even if it's, you're not doing medication for some severe cases of anxiety, you might need, uh, medication with therapy, but always, always therapy. 

Dr. Brighten: And what kind of therapy is most effective 

Dr. Lockhart: cognitive behavioral therapy by far.

Mm-hmm. So, CBT is great because you're really addressing the cognitions or their thoughts, the behaviors that get in the way of taking the risk or standing, you know, kind of taking that stand, um, as well as the emotions. So it really tackles your behaviors, your thoughts and your emotions, and making sure that they're in alignment with what you value and what you need to do to be free.

And so, um, I always tell people that whenever you are, uh, addressing anxiety, CBT is one of the most effective. Another one, uh, that's more of a, a newer quote [01:10:00] unquote type of therapy is acceptance and commitment therapy or a CT. Mm-hmm. I love that one. That's really good. Usually for older teens and adults.

Uh, 'cause it's really talking about being able to, um, not allow the fear of change. To keep you, kind of hold you back. So it's a lot more heady and it's really philosophical. It's very values based because, um, it can be very effective for anxiety. So I'd really say cognitive behavioral therapy or acceptance and commitment therapy are really, uh, are the most studied and really the best for anxiety.

Dr. Brighten: Mm-hmm. We know anxiety is really common and we know that women entering perimenopause, which could be as young as age 35, once you fall into that bracket of perimenopause, the incidence of anxiety and depression goes up by almost 40%. What impact is unresolved anxiety in a parent have on their child? 

Dr. Lockhart: Ah, [01:11:00] great, great question.

The thing about it, and I think this is where parents feel like they're being blamed for things. What? Yeah, it's not fun. It's not, it's not. But there is so much evidence that, um, that, that points to this and there is so much that we have to pay attention to. If you have a parent that is struggling with anxiety or depression and it's unresolved and they're not treating it and they're struggling with it, you can see why that would impact a child.

Because if you're anxious, for example, and you're not going out, you're not taking risks, you are beating up yourself, uh, you're not really engaged with friends and getting the support that you need, maybe you're not going to work, you're not getting outta the house. Whatever it is that's gonna impact your kids, how you show up.

Maybe you can't go to their game or to a play or you're not bringing, have inviting people over to the house. Or the things that they hear you saying about yourself, those things are going to impact them. And those things are, it's important to [01:12:00] address and what we know from the research that talks about adverse childhood experiences or ACEs, and it's this research that the, uh, in the, in the nineties that Kaiser, um, looked at, I think it was Kaiser and UCLA, I believe, and they looked at how a parent's mental health is, are one of the 10 factors that impacts the child's wellbeing and their mental health and their physical health and their life expectancy even.

So, yeah, so unresolved mental health issues of a parent is extremely impactful and that's why we wanna make sure we take care of ourselves because I, I see that when I work with adults in therapy and the stuff that they hold onto, a lot of it is because of its unresolved mental health issues of their own parents.

So it's really important that we make sure that we get ourselves taken care of in whatever way we need to. Um, because we don't need to struggle with it alone. It's, it's, it's so, so important for yourself as well as for your kids' upbringing. 

Dr. Brighten: You brought up life expectancy. [01:13:00] We, there was just a study that came out on A DHD showing that men don't live as long when they have a DHD, but women have a significant portion of their life lifespan cut down because of having a DHD, which I would imagine if we had had data on undiagnosed A DHD, we would see that, that that chunk of the lifespan was even greater.

What is going on there? That people have a shorter life expectancy. 

Dr. Lockhart: That's, it's interesting. I don't know if I've heard that before and that's interesting and it makes me wonder 'cause I know that from the things that I've read with the research with married versus single men and women. So like married men live longer, married, of course married women live shorter because they're borrowing our brains.

And then single women live longer and single men live shorter, right? Mm-hmm. That makes sense. That tracks, I'm trying to think [01:14:00] of if a woman's, you said a DHD women have a shorter life expectancy. Mm-hmm. And I'm wondering than ADHD men. Interesting. And I'm wondering if a lot of that for women has to do with that, that mental load, the perceived mental load, as well as the actual mental load of handling all the things and then being forgetful of the things like not going to the doctor, not following through with their appointments, um, not getting the blood work that they need to do, or now that they have work and kids and having to balance all of that, then they're last on the totem pole so that their health then maybe gets put on the back burner, I'm guessing.

Um, I'm wondering if that could be the reason. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. I think that coupled with the fact that if your nervous system is in a constant state of dysregulation, then your cortisol levels will be elevated. And as we know, elevated cortisols will age cells faster. Absolutely. You'll literally delete brain cells, which is lame.

So anybody listening, I am not a [01:15:00] fan of that. Um, but it is the reality of things. And so I think the, as you know, as women biologically speaking, we are set up to be more in tune with the environment, to have a greater sensitivity to the environment because just by way that we can gestate and then feed a human, like we, we have to, it's why.

Men can fast for days and they're fine. And we fast for two days and we lose our period and all hell breaks loose with our hormones. So I just think it's another layer of that chronic stress. But when you put the expectations that society has for women, right, of like holding down, like the job, the home, the children, and then you have a deficit in your executive function, that all becomes just a very, very heavy burden.

But it's, I think exactly what you said, it's multifactorial. Mm-hmm. There's so much going on, which is why I think the earlier awareness and some of the things we're talking about is so important. You brought up, uh, [01:16:00] oppositional defiant disorder earlier. Can you explain what that is and, and what does it look like?

Dr. Lockhart: Yes. This is a controversial, another unnecessarily controversial topic. Um, so ODD is something in our diagnostic manual and it is a, um. It's interesting because what we often find with this diagnosis that people often think is there's a lot of bias behind it because there is a disproportionate amount of, um, African American boys that are diagnosed with it versus other races, um mm-hmm.

And gender and um, and sometimes the wrong thing is being looked at. So typically with oppositional defiant disorder, you're seeing a kid who is, um, going against what people in authority are telling them to do. They are argumentative. They can be spiteful. So say you punish them, you take away something they like, they look for something to get back at you, somebody that hurt me or whatever.

Um, [01:17:00] sometimes their behaviors can turn into something that's quite dangerous because of their vindictiveness and they, they seem to sometimes lack empathy for the pain they cause on others. And I think that's why I. Sometimes teaching, raising and working with these kinds of kids can feel unsettling for people because it feels like they enjoy watching other people be in pain.

Typically, the, the progression of ODD is typically going from oppositional defiant disorder as a child to conduct disorder as a teen where they're now breaking and entering, um, uh, stealing. Assault, all these different kinds of things. 'cause again, we get better when we practice. Right? So you keep going.

Yeah. And that sometimes will morph into antisocial behavior where it becomes more and more disruptive, criminal, be type of behavior. And that's that school to prison pipeline that people of talk about oftentimes starts with ODD type kids. Mm-hmm. So, [01:18:00] um, a big part of that is being able to recognize that many kids that have or present that way many times, but not all the time, they tend to come from homes where there's some disruption in their development.

So a lot of times kids who've been fostered or come from abusive homes or there's lots of overly punitive parenting style or an absent parent. Um, so a lot, there's a lot of clashing between the parent and the child. The thing about oppositional defiant kids, even if they don't fit any of those categories that I mentioned, is the thing that I see the most, that's the hardest for parents and teachers.

Is they tend to pull out and bring out the worst in the adults in their lives. Mm-hmm. So they defy you. Kids can do that. 

Dr. Brighten: In general? In general. Just say in general. So this sounds next level. 

Dr. Lockhart: Yes. It's next level. Because it's like, you're like, fine, you failed the test. I'm gonna take away your TV and your bad and your phone.

And they're like, fine, I have more room in my, now I have more room in my room. Mm-hmm. Peace. [01:19:00] And so it's like, then you're just like, oh, I cannot believe, don't talk to me that way. Now you're grounded for a month. Who cares? I don't have friends. Anyway. Yeah. Like they, it's like they enjoy, like they bring out that, and so now what's happening is like this, this vicious cycle.

Now the more oppositional they become, the more punitive the parent becomes. And then the more the parent becomes yelling and taking things away, now they either escalate or withdraw or have this nonchalant attitude. Like nothing matters. So there's this big kind of cycle that occurs. It is this. And then what happens is now you have this punishment cycle where you've taken away so much.

Now you don't know what else to do. And now the relationship is destroyed. It's a really, really hard type of kid to parent. It's, they're really, really difficult. And so in that sense, parents and feel like, well, fine, I, I'm, you know, up in arms. And that's when you see sometimes parents hospitalizing their kid because they're being so destructive and defiant.

They're running away, they're beating people up. They're [01:20:00] defying things, they're throwing things in the school. Like it can be really hard. And the thing that is the most effective for these kids, which feels the hardest is connecting with them. Mm-hmm. Is really finding out what is truly driving this behavior.

And you give them what they need, which is typically a relationship. And the connection, which is the last thing that people wanna give because they've been pushed in so many different directions. They don't want to connect with this kid. Um, and so, and they wanna protect 

Dr. Brighten: themselves. 

Dr. Lockhart: Of course they do. Of course they do.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. 

Dr. Lockhart: And so that's the, that's the biggest thing. But it's, they're, they're a hard bunch, definitely. Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Brighten: I wanna talk about what else it could be though. So my son was initially, I think he was like, he was five years old at the time, and a doctor brought up ODD and said, I think that's his diagnosis. And I looked it up and I'm like, no, I can't even tell my child about a, a bad experience.

I had a child without him bursting into tears and being like, mom, I can't believe, like, the kid has [01:21:00] lots of empathy. Like there's just boxes not being checked here. And as it turned out, he ended up going into a full pandas episode, so pediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorder associated with strep.

And then we had a psycho. Eval, uh, psychoeducational eval. And it turns out his IQ is like off the charts. And so I'm like, okay. They, because the teachers also were like, we think this is ODD, and it was because he questions authority, because he's really smart. And people, I'm not bragging, raising a very intelligent child is a, um, it, it is why I immediately was like, I need a parent coach.

I actually said that to a friend of mine who's a psychologist. I was like, I feel like I need a coach to be a parent. She's like, that's what we do. I'm like, oh my God, I need so much help because these kids are so, he's really, he's really smart. But then he had this autoimmune condition of his brain, but the, the go-to like.

We had one doctor bring it up, teachers bring it up. We think this is ODD. I'm like, this doesn't look like [01:22:00] it. And it turned out it was something else. I'm just wondering how often that's happening. But if parents, if someone brings up ODD, so I just gave people, you know, it could be high iq, it could, you know, and that manifesting in like, you know, I'm gonna question everything about you or, you know, your kid could be developing pandas, uh, autoimmune condition or the brain.

There's also pans, which is not triggered by strep, triggered by something else. What else could be on that differential that parents should maybe consider or look into? Yes. Because I think ODD is a really heavy diagnosis to have land on your lap as a parent. Absolutely. And it, and it 

Dr. Lockhart: can feel like. Well then what now?

Um, yeah. So yes, a differential is important because ODD like, like I mentioned earlier, there's lots of things that can look like a lot of things on the surface and we have to be curious and look behind the behavior, like you said. Mm-hmm. Right? Like could it be pandas, could it be an autoimmune? Could it be, uh, high iq?

So with ODD, um, there's a possibility where maybe it's just a DHD and [01:23:00] because, um, the way that you parent a child with A DHD is different than the way you parent another child. And if they're not parented in the most effective way, you can bring out more oppositional behavior. 'cause they feel, well, I don't do anything right anyway, so I'm gonna be argumentative.

So it could be a DHD gone wrong because the parenting doesn't match the child that's in front of them. Um, it could be anxiety. It could be at high iq, maybe their, um, intelligence level isn't matching their level of placement in terms of their grade or the way they're being taught or the type of classroom they're being, they're in.

Um, it could be because they're being bullied. It could be social factors. It could be the type of teaching that they're getting that doesn't match the way they learn. Maybe they have a learning challenge. Maybe they have dyslexia or dysgraphia, uh, with their handwriting or their math skills. Maybe they have a learning challenge in a particular area, so then they're just like giving up because of that.

Mm-hmm. Uh, it could also be maybe something that's like. Anxiety [01:24:00] related, like OCD, that they're so in their thoughts so much, yeah. That they're getting wrapped up in being regimented or routine in a certain way. And when that gets disrupted, then they get dysregulated. So maybe it's abuse that could be abuse situation going on, whether it's at home or at school, or with a friend.

So I think we have to consider all the different differential and possibilities because it's really easy to just say, oh, a kid is, they're challenging me in the classroom or at home. They definitely are ODD, uh, 'cause we have to consider that. And then we have to consider racial and ethnic factors because there are this disproportionate in terms of who gets diagnosed and there can just be a stereotype or a misperception of what's really happening as well.

Dr. Brighten: Well, and you, you brought up, uh, you know, black boys specifically getting the ODD diagnosis. We also know for a long time in medicine there was a myth that, uh, they didn't get, they didn't have autism, that they weren't autistic. And so I also [01:25:00] think about how many children were diagnosed ODD, when in fact it was autism.

And so I think it's an important diagnosis to always question. I don't know how you feel about it, but I am of the mindset of like, if ODD comes up, get a second opinion. Absolutely. Just to make sure everything has been ruled out. I do wanna bring up the, um, the, the factor of high iq. 'cause when I've shared with people online that my son, you know, he was tested, the teacher or the psychologist came out and she's like, in 25 years, I've never tested a kid with this high iq.

And she's just like. How are you doing? Because my gosh, this has gotta be hard. And it was like, oh my gosh, yes. Like, and when I've shared that with people, there's two react. There's people who know their kid has an I IQ and they're like, this is the hardest. I never thought I'd have to parent so hard. Like, this is so difficult sometimes.

And then there's other people that are like, oh, you're just bragging. And I'm like, they have different needs. My kid's smarter than me. Like, like, [01:26:00] so that's like different needs. Um, I wanna just talk about that for parents, um, just to be able to help them, like what things should be considered when your child does have a higher IQ to help them be successful, whether it's in school, whether it's in life, I mean.

I don't wanna freak anybody out, but you know, we know that sometimes higher IQ means higher propensity towards drug and alcohol use and, and different factors that no one wants to see their child fall into. And this is the kind of stuff that keeps me up at night about my child. 

Dr. Lockhart: Yeah. I think that we want to first assess where they are because sometimes they have this high iq, they're gifted, talented, and we don't know.

So if you suspect that, I think being able to get them evaluated to see where they're actually popping up high in certain areas. And maybe there could be a, um, twice exceptional or two e kid. 'cause there's times when you have a kid with a high IQ and they also have a DHD. Mm-hmm. Yep. That does. Yes. So we have to pay attention to that because they may be, you know, really high in all these [01:27:00] different areas.

Maybe their processing speed or their working memory is really terrible, which is affecting something else. So I think getting a basic assessment that's really thorough. So you have, okay, this is what we're working on and this is what, this is what we're working from. And then being able to make sure that they're placed in the right kind of learning environment, that they're getting the right kind of support in the areas where they're weaker in and they're getting the other kind of support to kind of continue to enhance the areas where they're strong in.

Uh, and then educating them on that. Like, this is, this is what this looks like, this is what this means. It does not mean that you're better than everybody else. It just means that you're really, really high in these areas. Um, and then I think also that educating yourself as a parent in terms of understanding that sometimes your kid will get you in this loophole because they may be smarter than you, like you said, in certain areas.

Oh, yes. And they can catch you in things that you may not be catching, that they end up catching and, um, or, or debating you about something like, well, you know, what is the point of homework when we know that 65% of kids in elementary [01:28:00] school don't do better when they, you know, like things like that. That's literally my 

Dr. Brighten: week right now.

So we, we actually homeschool, which is not accessible to everybody, but it was at, when my child had bandas, it was like a year of doctor's visits. Like when would he have been in school? Like we were at the doctor all of the time. We had to go through like neuro rehab for like where we would go to the clinic like every day for a week.

And, um. So that's how we ended up into like homeschooling. And now we keep working on transitioning into a school, but is is very difficult. But this has been my week, this week. So we also have, uh, and I just want to recognize my privilege in that, like I'm able to hire a tutor and I have other people that come in where I have deficits or lack of patience in a subject where I can bring people in with that.

So homeschooling is not for everybody and I never want what I do to be an endorsement, that that's what you should do. Um, but it is very challenging 'cause we just had the, he, he came up with like, I mean he wrote this argument out to [01:29:00] me and like, man, he presented it. I was like, you need to be on debate team child of why he did not need to study and why this and this and this and all this stuff.

And you know, you, you have to hear them out and let 'em play out. Um, and then you know, you, for, in that situation I was like, let's have a healthy debate about this. Yes, let's go back and forth and I want you to like. Convince me. Um, and in the end, uh, you know, he did not convince me and he was not totally convinced by me, but he did go back and do his schoolwork.

But I was like, this is the kind of thing that if I don't let it play out, like we are just gonna ha it's gonna be a wreck, a complete mess today. 

Dr. Lockhart: And that's what I was gonna say is that when a kid is trying to catch you in something and they want to debate you, or they want to plead their case, I think one of the best things we can do as parents is we get curious and we lean into that resistance and we get curious about it.

Okay, so you don't think that you have to study? Uh, convince me. Tell me why. And, and just, and don't make it as in like, well, [01:30:00] tell me why, you know, but it's more of like you're engaging with them, you're being curious, and you're communicating that your opinion and your thoughts matter to me. You don't need to escalate your point in order for me to hear you, because I'm right here with you, listening to you to it.

So I think that's beautiful that you're able to do that and get into a healthy debate about it, because that's what these kids need. They want to feel understood. They want to feel like they're not just far and left feel, and the parent isn't listening. So I think being curious and joining that resistance is always helpful.

Dr. Brighten: And they don't like to be told what to do, so. No, they don't. 

Dr. Lockhart: They don't. I mean, I 

Dr. Brighten: was that kid, so I get it. Yeah. It's like I get it. Right. I wanna ask, um, you know, we've brought up a few times about like talking to professionals and getting help. What are the signs, if it, so, and I know this is a really big question, but what are the signs that a parents should seek professional help for their child?

Dr. Lockhart: So I think once you get into that fine line that I mentioned earlier, when it's not just [01:31:00] typical normal behavior that they're just anxious or they're just not paying attention or they're just having issues with friends, or they're just having the occasional tantrum at the store when it becomes impairing that they have no friends, where they're always losing friends, they're getting into fights at school, they are constantly failing.

You can't ever go out as a family because there's always an issue with the kid whenever there's significant impairment. Impairment in multiple areas of functioning, school, home, friends, relationships. Um, their own mental health, their state of mind, their physical health. When you notice a significant impact on different areas of functioning, you really should get further help.

And that might be a parent coach for the parent, because sometimes maybe you just need to be guided differently in terms of parenting this kind of kid differently. And like I've mentioned, when you're parenting a kid with autism or ODD or anxiety or depression, a DH, adhd, like they, you do have to take a different approach because they're [01:32:00] not neurotypical and they're not as maybe quote unquote easy.

And it might be, it might take more effort. And the thing is, if you have more than one kid, the one that's harder to parent notices it. Yeah, they feel like the bad child because if I was such a good kid, then you wouldn't be taking things away all the time. I wouldn't be in trouble all the time. I wouldn't be yelled at all the time.

I wouldn't be getting failing grades. So they, mm-hmm. They know that they create grief in the home and so we don't want to reinforce that narrative. And so I think that when you start to see this impairment, it's really important to get parent coaching help for yourself so that you could learn how to regulate and how to approach them differently.

And also then getting help for your child. So whether it's play therapy for the kids that are younger than 10, which can help in terms of processing since play is their language, or the older kids through talk therapy and engaging with someone that they can connect with to work through that anxiety or that depression or that executive function.

Learning those executive function skills. 

Dr. Brighten: I brought up parent [01:33:00] coach, uh, you brought up parent coach. I think that's probably foreign to a lot of people. Can you explain what a parent coach is and how parents collaborate with them? 

Dr. Lockhart: Oh yeah. So parent coach is not something that I was familiar with. I mean, more than, I don't know, 10 years ago, I think it's when I really started doing more of it.

But a parent coach is someone who's either trained in behavioral health. So like I'm a pediatric psychologist, I'm board certified in child and adolescent psychology. So there might be someone who then turns, um, moves into more parent coaching as well because of their knowledge and experience with child development and with.

Adolescent development as well, and basically a parent co or someone who is trained in it and has learned to be able to help parents in various ways based on their kind of conceptual conceptualization of the problem. So a parent coach is basically someone who works with a parent to help support them through their struggles, empathize with what they're going through, and then give them [01:34:00] hands on practical strategies to get through the challenge so that they're not just listening to you.

It's not therapy. They're not like, oh, that's hard. How does that make you feel? Like we're not doing any of that. That's part of it, but it's more action oriented and more solution focused. So saying, okay, it seems like you're having a hard time getting your child to bed and staying in the bed. So this is the strategy that we're gonna come up with over the next month or the next week.

We're going to do the, you know, you know, prepare them. You're gonna do the quiet return for the bed. We're going to. Do a chart, whatever it is, like we're gonna create whatever is the, the strategy that is gonna work best for this individual parent. And you guide them through it. Yeah. And you support them through it.

So it's really, it's, you know, getting someone who's coaching you through parenting to help you and your maybe co-parent or spouse get on the same page. Because that's often an issue. I work a lot with those kinds of parents or being able to normalize that the, the phase of parenting they're in is [01:35:00] actually normal.

It's just very irritating. Mm-hmm. So I see a lot of parents of, um, uh, three and four year olds and a lot of parents of teenagers. Those categories tend to be very, very similar. And I'm right there with you guys. Yes, yes. Because they're more, I have more independence. They're realizing there are more, more autonomy.

They can speak up for themselves, that they can say no, they can have beliefs about things and it can be a struggle, but it's all normal. And so it's really about then normalizing and teaching the parent about development and that what they're going through is actually a, not, not a problem, but how to respond differently to it.

And so, yeah, so a parent coach can help with all those things. Or if your child is struggling with a certain diagnosis or certain type of temperament. I work a lot with parents, with kids who have a DHD and anxiety and who are highly sensitive. And so really teaching them about what this means. And then how to respond differently based on these things.

So it can be really effective. And um, the good thing is that because of parent coaching, I can help [01:36:00] people anywhere in the world. And so, um, through my practice, my team and I, that's what we do. And so it's, it's extremely effective. Sometimes I see people once or twice, and other times I've seen people for years.

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. I actually, I've referred a couple of friends to you because I've, I tell everybody that I have a parent coach, um, and some people are like, why? Why would you need that? Like, aren't you a good parent? And I'm like, only because I have someone coaching me. Like anything you wanna excel at in life.

Getting, like you said, you are, you excel at the things you practice. And so if you get a coach, it can make such a difference. And because sometimes you're like, I'm the worst parent, I'm doing everything wrong. Like, I feel like my child hates me. Like you have all of these struggles and to have someone that you can talk to about that and then they explain like, no, they don't actually hate you.

This is what's going on for them. And if you try this thing and then you try it and it works, and you're like, oh, life just got so much easier. Like what? What? It worked. So I, I'm a big fan of having a parent coach. I, I [01:37:00] will link to your practice so that people can have access to you as well. Like I said, you guys, I already referred a few people to her as, I had a friend that was like, I think you know that parent coach thing you talked about?

I think we need that. And, and they have, um, a 9-year-old going on 10, and I'm like, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Like it's really, it's a really solid thing to have. The other thing is, um. That I found really helpful just for, for people who are curious, it's not just about like, oh, how do you parent? But it's also like, how do you set up an environment for your child, right?

We've got like the Instagram beige aesthetic that like everybody sees that we're like supposed to be like chasing, right? Um, and in reality, like we had, um, so this is just one really simple thing is that our home, when we started with this coach that we were living in. Had like 30 foot ceilings and she's like, she wanted to, first thing, she's like, I wanna see your space.

She's like, your space is incredibly dysregulating for a child with a DHD because there's [01:38:00] all of this space to fill. And so she's like, when you're doing schoolwork, like we need to try different things. So one, we got a bunk bed, so there was a layer above him and, and then we put sheets on either side. He slept so much better.

Then when it came to school, we actually brought a tent in and had school like in a tent and like close the space. Oh, what do you know? He was focusing, he was falling through on things. He was like. Just doing so well. And so it's so much more than just the behavior. It's also the environment or how do you handle the interactions, you know, that are happening outside the home And as you said, bringing partners in.

There's actually sessions where like just my husband will meet or just I will meet because it's like. I'm, you know, he said to me like, I'm really struggling. I feel like we're completely disconnected. Or he doesn't listen to anything I say. And I'm like, I think you should just have a one-on-one session where you can work through that.

And you feel that that's a totally safe environment. Like, I'm not gonna be sitting there, right? 'cause we're always like, what's my spouse think of me right now. You don't have to think [01:39:00] about that. So there's just so many ways that it can benefit the family dynamic. I don't know. Is there anything else you wanna add that I didn't touch on from my experience?

'cause you're the professional. 

Dr. Lockhart: No, I think that it's, it's, it's really, you really should be able to find a parent coach who's going to individualize their approach based on what your family needs, based on your generation, your cultural background, your child's age, their diagnosis, everything. Because it's not a one size fits all approach.

And so, um, every I I see a lot of people who come in and it's like, I tried all this stuff from the internet and it's not working. And 

Dr. Brighten: it's like, well, because it turns out Chad GPT will not individualize it for 

Dr. Lockhart: you, right? No, no. And so it's like, it's okay that it's not working for you. And a lot of times they feel shame because they're like, everybody says that this is trendy.

This is the way I'm supposed to approach parenting and it's not working. And it doesn't mean that you're a bad parent, it just means that the way that you're parenting this particular kid right now is not as effective as it should be, or you're not approaching it in the way that they need most. And so I think, um, I think people need to realize that [01:40:00] you're doing the best that you can, given what you're, what, what you're, what you've been given.

We're not. Mm-hmm. We don't get training for parenting. We get training in so many other things with driving, with our job, with flying a plane, with, you know, doing all these different things. And yet we just have kids. Yeah. And we don't get training for it. So it's okay to say that, okay, I need help. I need support, I need education.

It doesn't mean that you're missing the boat, it just means that you need to get coached in stuff, which is what most people do when they wanna get better at something. So there's no shame in that at all. No shame. Absolutely. 

Dr. Brighten: Yeah. Well, thank you so much. This was such a fantastic conversation. I am like I already foresee the comments coming through that we're gonna have to have you back and do this again because I think you've just helped so many parents out there in just this short bit of time.

So thank you for being so generous with your knowledge and your time. I really appreciate you. 

Dr. Lockhart: Thanks for having me. It was been, it's been a pleasure to be here.